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Old 08-13-2007, 04:33 AM   #1
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Hello everyone! I think I have read every A/C post on this forum as well as the Winnebago forum and still have an issue. I have a 2004 33V on a W20 chassis. The dash air is blowing at 70 degrees with 108 outside temperature (yes, I live in Arizona!) When we were in Utah a couple weeks ago, it was blowing about 50 degrees with an outside temp of 70 degrees. Pressures are fine...53 low and 300 high, outside temp 108. The low side line on the expansion valve does not get very cold with the temp at 108. But it did get cold when outside temp was 70. I took out the water valve and put in 2 ball valves. No change in performance. Compressor is on when its supposed to be on, the condenser fans are on, dash air blows fine. The only thing I haven't done is evac the system and recharge with fresh refigerant. QUESTION....in the sight glass of the receiver/dryer, I have no bubbles but the refrigerant appears "white/tan color" in the sight glass....Is this correct? As you can all tell, I am trying everything to avoid taking it in to a repair facility.....
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Old 08-13-2007, 04:33 AM   #2
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Hello everyone! I think I have read every A/C post on this forum as well as the Winnebago forum and still have an issue. I have a 2004 33V on a W20 chassis. The dash air is blowing at 70 degrees with 108 outside temperature (yes, I live in Arizona!) When we were in Utah a couple weeks ago, it was blowing about 50 degrees with an outside temp of 70 degrees. Pressures are fine...53 low and 300 high, outside temp 108. The low side line on the expansion valve does not get very cold with the temp at 108. But it did get cold when outside temp was 70. I took out the water valve and put in 2 ball valves. No change in performance. Compressor is on when its supposed to be on, the condenser fans are on, dash air blows fine. The only thing I haven't done is evac the system and recharge with fresh refigerant. QUESTION....in the sight glass of the receiver/dryer, I have no bubbles but the refrigerant appears "white/tan color" in the sight glass....Is this correct? As you can all tell, I am trying everything to avoid taking it in to a repair facility.....
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Old 08-13-2007, 05:25 AM   #3
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Greg, sorry I can't answer your question but I'll post this just in case you're not aware of this add on cool pack.

Here's a picture of the unit.
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Old 08-13-2007, 07:54 AM   #4
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The Crystal Cool (CC) air conditioning kit that was a feature component of "Workhorse Parts" is no longer a SKU and not being sold or supported by the company.

The primary reasons for this was the initial cost, the installation time which can extend to an all day affair (mine did) and the lack of dealer interest and field support. The kit is comprised of a different compressor which I am told is better than the stock OEM unit but I can't verify that, a secondary condenser with 2 more cooling fans, a new fan belt for the different size pulley, additional high pressure components and sensors and the CC computer control module.

The CC computer is accessed by a special cable which is also difficult to obtain which interfaces I believe to the CC computer via an RJ45 or RJ12 modular plug and or a serial or USB connector to a laptop. Using Windows Hyper Terminal you can observe in real time what the CC computer is doing and how efficiently the system is cooling. This I believe is unique feature in automotive air conditioning systems. The CC computer monitors the system temperatures and pressures and initiates the process when the compressor is required to clutch up and begin operations.

The unit runs using 134a refrigerant. It is serviced using conventional air conditioning equipment that you would find in a competent AC service center. I would not recommend attempting to install this system at home unless you're an AC Geek and a pretty fair mechanic.



I have been running the CC unit for about 1 year with mixed results. Depending on the outside temperature the unit can provide too much output where you can practically hang meat all the way to a whisper or a suggestion of cool air when the outside temperatures range from 95 degrees and above. The 43 degree claim at the registers in my opinion was never achieved. On day one on my way home from Terry LaBonte Chevrolet in Greensboro, NC the unit blew hot air all the way home back to the beach. For the investment in our time and money, we were very disappointed in the performance of the unit from the onset. I just want to add that I did not pay for the unit since it was a promotional item.

Here is my initial review of the product:

08/31/2006

Mike Pelchat

THIMC; (I know who! - not WCC parts)

Could you please send me a diagnostic cable for the CC computer? I would like to get into HyperTerminal and observe the data and let you know what I find.

From day one returning home, I remain unconvinced that the Crystal Air is doing what it is billed as in its promotional materials. The unit does not cool well when standing still. The billing on this is that it'll replace the need for supplemental coach air and I just can't see it.

I am expecting cold crisp air and I'm just not getting that. The air coming from the registers is slightly if at all better than the stock unit and it almost feels damp at times. This is very uncomfortable since most A/C units wring out the air lowering the relative humidity. I am observing condensate fall from the evaporator box.

I have noticed that when the auxiliary cooling fans kick in, the registers will flow cooler dryer air. If the system doesn't call for the fans to operate the A/C is equivalent to a stock unit.

The unit seems to operate within acceptable levels when the temperatures outside are in the mid-and lower 80s.

Please help me understand how the horizontally mounted condenser on the bottom of the radiator mount improves the A/C system since the end of the condenser unit is parallel to the air flow. The way I see it, unless the fans kick in, the lower unit doesn't get much flow.

Regarding the promotional copy in the brochure, "need to feel the freeze", that's not happening.

In the on-line copy, "We have tested this system, under best case scenarios, and have measured air coming out of the vents at 48F while the outside temperature was 118F a difference of 70F! You will quickly and easily feel the cold with Crystal Air." This is not my experience with this unit and I can't provide incite with confidence to customers.

As of this report, I have been mute regarding the promotion of the Crystal Air Kit. My readers continue to ask me for my evaluation and recommendation however the only thing that I can say is that I am continuing to evaluate the system and that I will report my findings when I have something conclusive to say.

I have approximately 400 brochures and I can not in good conscious promote this unit to the public as it stands because I am not confident that the product delivers what it promises. I can't as well recommend to my readers on iRV2 that they go out and spend close to $2,000 for the CC and labor to get a system that falls short of its promotional materials because I will get raked over the coals.

In the over 1500 miles that I have accumulated, my observation is that the air conditioning system is not as remarkable as I would have liked to believe it to be and the unit falls short in expectation.

Regards, Me

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK folks! Am I really dead set against the CC Unit? Short answer is no not yet. With this amount of air conditioning hardware there just has to be a small engineering omission that is keeping this thing from realizing its full potential. I'm thinking if the fans ran "all the time" on the lower unit that the registers would provide cooler air. I know this because I just posted that while climbing mountains under a heavy load (towing, full gas, etc), 90 degree day, I was observing the coolant temperature going down on my Scan Gauge and enjoying colder air coming from the dash registers. You would think that as the load increases the heat increases but not on my Workhorse. The harder it works the cooler it gets. Consequently I have observed that the only way the temps go down is because both the main engine fan and all the auxiliary cooling fans begin spooling up.

About the 400 brochures, they went into recycling!

And that's the rests of the story .....
Have a good one!

#14997
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Old 08-13-2007, 08:08 AM   #5
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Whoops!!! Thanks Driver.
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Old 08-13-2007, 12:25 PM   #6
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The supplemental A/C unit I have is a single fan unit, in front of a cooling radiator (installed Jan 04). The whole shebang is located on the copilot side, in front of the air intake scoop, just aft of the grill. And, in a related post, I noted the A/C air flow most times stops in the "Max A/C" mode (recently developed problem). Air flow starts again when I switch to normal "A/C" mode, and cooling resumes, providing I'm driving down the road. If still, or slow, hot air comes out. Haven't taken it to a shop yet.

So I have four fans. But do they all work?

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Old 08-13-2007, 01:06 PM   #7
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Mike, thank you for the review of the CC. I must tell you that your HONESTY is very refreshing, and has certainly confirmed my respect for you, especially in light of your position with WCC.

Best to you - Glenn
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Old 08-13-2007, 04:55 PM   #8
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One thing that I think is worth looking into is the location of the intake air to the evaporator. My coach, very similar to yours, will deliver decent air while moving. When you slow or get into traffic the delivered temperature rises. The unit draws in the heated air from the engine compartment. This is also true when operating in moderate temperatures with just fresh air. Great on the road, stop and the temperature goes up.

Anyone ever done a fresh air intake to the evaporator???
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Old 08-13-2007, 05:11 PM   #9
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Well today I can tell you that my A/C really didn't cut it even on MAX. It was about 96 out and I was seeing about 48 degree discharge temp. A almost 50 degree temp differentials is not that bad. But, to get it cool in the rig going down the road I had use the genny and roof air.
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Old 08-13-2007, 05:28 PM   #10
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Mines the same way Depchief. Acceptable when running at speed, but it blows warm to hot, the longer I sit or go slow in a traffic jam. It was not acceptable at first and I took it back to the svc cntr after my first trip. They checked it out and said it was working as good as any WH AC unit but I have to be moving for it to get cool.

Dang Driver, that CC AC must have been very disappointing for you to give a WH product a review like that. I appreciate the honesty tho. So we won't rake you over the coals on that one.
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Old 08-13-2007, 05:38 PM   #11
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by max49:
I appreciate the honesty tho. So we won't rake you over the coals on that one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Max, I really am in your corner!
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Old 08-13-2007, 06:12 PM   #12
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But I gotta tease you Driver, Nobody else does so it's that much more important, to keep you in practice
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Old 08-14-2007, 03:43 AM   #13
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Mike,

I never count make myself believe the that a 2k+ add on could fix a basic design issue.... too much stuff requiring air flow, too close together and not enough air to go around. You don't have to be a engineer to figure that out.
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Old 08-14-2007, 07:08 PM   #14
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Crystal Cool Pack.........hmmm, well if DriVer says its not worth the investment, that's probably pretty good word. Hey, thanks to all of you for responding on the post as well as PM's. We'll get er' blowing cold.....or bake in the 115 degree heat!!!
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