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Old 08-16-2021, 01:12 PM   #1
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Glumous needs help

I have a Winnebago adventurer 8.1 gas and Alisson transmission behind it. i pick it up early this year from storage. during the drive home it hesitated so bad it did not want to go over 35 miles an hour it started on the way to storage too just intermittent. so intermittent I didn't even think anything about it ,was like it was a pot hole. I replaced fuel filter as I put 29 thousand miles on it the last two years prolly time. I changed the spark plugs and wires. I had a friend come over and run a scan on it with his scanner and fuel trims where going crazy in cylinder 6 (no codes) . checked o2 sensors replaced right bank sensor to no change. changed mass air flow to now change changed air filter and tested fuel pressure regulator and fuel pump and all tested good. Changed fuel injector at cylinder 6 and coil as instructed no change at all. took to a shop for further repair. this is as follows.

checked for run rough /misfire after running short time.
Scan computer system found fault in fuel oxygen sensor circuits found two shorted fuel injectors. right side oxygen sensor shorted- also found high resistance at multiple pcm pins-found high resistance in circuit to oxygen sensors causing damage to pcm found voltage leakage from oxygen sensor heater to sensor element-rewire reset computer system.


This repair made the rv run and go to speeds needed. however the right bank is running very rich throwing black smoke and fuel mileage is about zero mpg.. any more ideas on what to do ? besides move on form and buy new
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Old 08-16-2021, 01:30 PM   #2
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Whenever you find "high resistance at multiple pcm pins" then that condition should be the first to check. It is not overly uncommon for many connectors with time to back away from within the plug. What I would do first, disconnect the battery (all batteries coach and chassis), unplug from shore power, and unplug each computer module in particular the ECM (but all others as well including the sensor connections) and spray a bit of contact cleaner on the connections and visually make sure that each pin in the connection is at the same height as the other pins. More than once (many times really) I have seen where one or two (sometimes more) of the wires have backed out of the plug causing a poor connection. If you find that, be sure to push the wires and pins all the way back in the connector and make sure when you plug the connector back in that no wires (pins) get pushed back out while plugging in. Also, you need to lookup the style connectors you have to know how to disconnect them, many have latches and clips that if you don't know about or don't do it correctly can damage the latch for the connector.

If that doesn't solve it, then you can get more details from the obdii port and a reader that provides realtime readouts, but if you are not overly familiar with that, I would take it back to the same mechanics that found the faults earlier and fixed them, they are likely very aware of what I suggested and in a better position (especially if you can use the same mechanic) to know what else should be checked.

I personally would not move on to a new or used RV because of this and not fix it, no one will want to purchase an RV blowing black smoke so you need to fix the issue whether or not you decide to keep it for years to come, otherwise I suspect you will take a huge hit (loss) on the sale (or trade-in) and that hit certainly could be into the thousands of dollars vs the cost of repair. ~CA
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Old 08-16-2021, 01:33 PM   #3
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BTW, Welcome to the IRV2 forums. ~CA
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Old 08-16-2021, 01:49 PM   #4
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thank you for the info

my issues with looking at it this "shop" seems to have took a wires (made) and tapped the driver side o2 sensor and ran these wires to the right side o2 sensor and tapped into them using them to just to get this thing to run.. taking it back to that shop isn't an option as the cost for bailing wire and duct tape( sarcastic) I would like it fixed right. problem is it seems no matter where
there is a long wait for repairs and of course it will most probably take the remainder for the summer to fix shooting any plans in the face. why would this even be a repair I've been a mechanic for 20 yrs this is a first for me/.
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Old 08-16-2021, 02:17 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markhtrck View Post
my issues with looking at it this "shop" seems to have took a wires (made) and tapped the driver side o2 sensor and ran these wires to the right side o2 sensor and tapped into them using them to just to get this thing to run.. taking it back to that shop isn't an option as the cost for bailing wire and duct tape( sarcastic) I would like it fixed right. problem is it seems no matter where
there is a long wait for repairs and of course it will most probably take the remainder for the summer to fix shooting any plans in the face. why would this even be a repair I've been a mechanic for 20 yrs this is a first for me/.

I agree in that case, as I thought more highly of that shop based on your opening post. It sounds as if they took a shortcut(s) and instead of finding where the high resistance was coming from, they just ran another wire(s). The problem with that is that there could be a harness with lots of sensor connections that are also not making a great connection. I would try to track the wiring down from the O2 to the ECM and double check all connectors you find as well as any areas where the wire(s) could have damage due to rubbing the chassis. My suspicion and likely where I would likely start would be at the ECM with its connector. Many years back on an Isuzu truck, I found a similar issue with high resistance to the ECM connections and found a harness connector hidden in a plastic conduit under the radiator and I saw no reason at all to have a connector there. If your scan guage is all over the place then I highly suspect there is a poor connection somewhere, and as I think about, could be with the ground. It wouldn't hurt as a simple test (and upgraded modification) to run a new ground wire from the battery to the frame and then to the ecm making sure that the ECM is well grounded. ~CA
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Old 08-17-2021, 08:05 PM   #6
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Definitely re do all grounds.. since you were mechanic for 20yrs.. pulling each ground.. cleaning and re tightening.. seems to be the cheapest most time consuming job.. and at 130.00 plus an hour.. most shops skip it because the customer would freak out at 2500.00 or less bill and no changed parts.. also.. you need to keep in mind.. that critters love tasty wires and rubber hoses and lines.. and chew or bite them.. so when things go haywire or don't make sense keep critters in the back of your mind.. look for their signs.. poo.. bite marks.. ect.. the problem is when your a mechanic.. is that you always inspect what others have done.. and it never measures up.. good luck and keep us posted
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Old 08-20-2021, 10:37 AM   #7
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The gummous goes in for repair on the 20th of September i will update as it goes. cleaning changing the grounds had no change in the rich burning condition. i thought about a scan tool to get real live data from the ecm as its happening for my own curiosity. however the cost wasn't on the table for I know the repair going to hit the pockets
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Old 08-20-2021, 02:59 PM   #8
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Regarding the costs, you don't need an expensive reader as many of the cheaper ones have live data. I went to Amazon to give you an example and found this one. I am not sure if the price is a mistake, but I have never seen one this cheap lol, it shows for me a price of 28.99, free shipping, and right below the price is a 50% off coupon, so what's that 14.50 + tax, I may get one for myself although not sure why as I have a better one from years back. I know nothing about this though, could be a piece of garbage although 90% of the ratings are 3 or higher. Also it says "Real-time Graph:
The data shown in the graph includes: engine load, coolant temperature, sensors, engine intake temperature, fuel ratio and other dozens of real-time data." which should cover what I was suggesting. Again, I am not the seller, just that if you don't have a obdii reader of any style, I suspect this one is worth the money (or worth less... lol) ~CA

https://www.amazon.com/Rovtop-Diagno...ustomerReviews
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Old 09-15-2021, 07:03 AM   #9
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Glumous needs help

Update to previous post.
i have hopefully corrected the issue i was having with rich condition on the right bank. i removed the hack wiring job the shop did to my motorhome and fixed all the wiring back to factory specs with the exception of running a separate ground from the bank 2 oxygen sensor straight to block. this has corrected the rich condition on the bank 2. running scans on the engine and seeing fuel trims now with in range and taken it in real life drive conditions with different loads it appears to respond within specs and running great with restoring the 10 mpg in the city driving. (replaced the fouled plugs on the right side as well ) left bank plugs has 200 miles on them and look new as the day i put them in. so the issue was a bad ground from the o2 sensor on bank 2 to the motorhome gods. will update after a longer trip which is happening this weekend to see if it continues to be problem free.
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Old 09-19-2021, 01:18 AM   #10
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btw, I would always use plentiful elec connector cleaner, and Insert connector still wet a couple of times then let dry and re-connect MULTIPLE TIMES.

I doubt the connectors 'back out' (they usually are a very tight connection!) but they form corrosion due to moisture and can have high resistance due to that corrosion, thus why I suggest connect/re-connect MULTIPLE TIMES when both wet and dry.

GL !!
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