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06-05-2021, 03:08 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 7
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Help...ECM 454 older model
Hi. I know nothing about the combustion engine. Bought a 1993 Pace Arrow 34 foot with a Chevy 454. Chasis batteries and 12v all died over the year. I am new to rv thing, as a pro musician it seemed safe...
Anyway, some fine folks in the park said they knew how to change the batteries. Needless to say, after buying 3 batteries, they caught a 6v and 12v on fire.
Got the power right, a classic car mechanic buddy is doing it, he is a full time mech. It seems now its not getting spark or fuel. We replaced fuses, and got electrical sorted out, it will try to crank but never actually engage. Its a 93, so if the ECM is smoked, I should be able to find a refurbished or something. I read another thread discussing ECMs and I see a few folks who think it might not be...but we replaced fuses, coil on the alternator, burnt cables, batteries...and Im broke lol. Also, the generator, which is gas off the engine, will not engage either.
Thank you for any advice. God bless, drive safe.
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06-05-2021, 11:40 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Seattle,WA/HB,CA./Fujieda-Japan
Posts: 849
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1. Check all your fuses Under dash near steering column)
2. If they check good and still not start...check to see that the TBI injectors are spraying when cranking.
3. If you see fuel it is likely the ICM (Ignition control module) or ignition coil itself (mounted next to distributor).
If I were you I'd pull the distributor and replace the pick up coil and clean the distributor well. Check that the stator ring is not cracked or loose. Use AC Delco parts. Be sure and mark the distributor prior to removal (take a pic straight down view cap off rotor still installed). Install new ICM with thermal paste, new rotor and cap. You may as well do plugs and wires as well.
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06-06-2021, 08:25 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 2,130
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A scan tool will tell you if the ECM is good. An error similar to 'no communication' would pretty much mean you need a new one.
Most remanufactured boards won't have the PROM for your engine, that contains data for the specific engine and use.
It will have to be removed from the old board and installed on the reman board. I wouldn't bet that the PROM made it through if the board didn't. I'd look for a used ECM out of a motorhome chassis that had the PROM.
In that era Chevy used a oil pressure sender that would shut down the engine if it lost pressure. To start it there is a stand alone timer that allowed the engine to start and run for 15 seconds or so with no input from the oil pressure sender, then the timer dropped out and the ECM controlled the engine. The timer was located on the back of the engine.
I'd hook up a scanner and see if it could even find the ECM. Make sure all plugs are tight and not burned. If it's electrically there and every looks good on the plugs I lean towards the timer got cooked. Maybe short around it, I don't know of any real check. It didn't fail hardly ever so it just got replaced if everything was right and the engine wouldn't start.
Does everything still work in the house?
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06-06-2021, 10:46 PM
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#4
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argosy
A scan tool will tell you if the ECM is good. An error similar to 'no communication' would pretty much mean you need a new one.
Most remanufactured boards won't have the PROM for your engine, that contains data for the specific engine and use.
It will have to be removed from the old board and installed on the reman board. I wouldn't bet that the PROM made it through if the board didn't. I'd look for a used ECM out of a motorhome chassis that had the PROM.
In that era Chevy used a oil pressure sender that would shut down the engine if it lost pressure. To start it there is a stand alone timer that allowed the engine to start and run for 15 seconds or so with no input from the oil pressure sender, then the timer dropped out and the ECM controlled the engine. The timer was located on the back of the engine.
I'd hook up a scanner and see if it could even find the ECM. Make sure all plugs are tight and not burned. If it's electrically there and every looks good on the plugs I lean towards the timer got cooked. Maybe short around it, I don't know of any real check. It didn't fail hardly ever so it just got replaced if everything was right and the engine wouldn't start.
Does everything still work in the house?
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Thank you. Yes in the house everything is fine. The generator won't turn over either...
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06-07-2021, 06:16 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Watertown NY USA
Posts: 6,389
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The very first thing I would check would be the heavy wire plugged into the distributor cap to be sure you are getting 12V. to the distributor when the ignition switch is in the on position. On most passenger vehicles and light trucks this is a red wire with a white connector.
If your friend suspects a faulty ECM (computer) you might want to check with these people for testing before you just run out and buy one:
www.AUTOECMS.com (877) 687 3267 * (570) 883 9930
The pick up coil inside the distributor can be tested with an ohm meter. Some auto parts stores have ignition control module testers. The module would have to be removed to be tested. When installed the module requires a Di-Electric silicone grease between the module and the plate it's mounted to. If you buy a new module a small amount of this grease will be included with the module.
You should be able to find diagnostic information for your electrical and ignition system on various "You Tube" videos.
__________________
2002 Fleetwood Storm 30H on Workhorse P32 chassis 8.1 gas.
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06-09-2021, 05:52 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,353
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You say you know some about eng... pull air cleaner off and tell us if carb or fuel injection... then look at distributo and tell us if coil is inside.. then follow fuel lines and tell us if they go straight to the tank or go along front of eng into fuel pump.. please let us know and we will try to help.. good luck..
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06-09-2021, 09:55 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donr103
You say you know some about eng... pull air cleaner off and tell us if carb or fuel injection... then look at distributo and tell us if coil is inside.. then follow fuel lines and tell us if they go straight to the tank or go along front of eng into fuel pump.. please let us know and we will try to help.. good luck..
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I think he said he knows nothing. Its TBI for sure. Excuse me if this is rendundant but I would break this down by checking for...
1.) Air (any obstruction in the pie pan/air cleaner housing)
2.) Fuel
Your TBI runs fairly low psi wise compared to a Vortec and may also have a mechanical pump alongside the block. Do you even smell gas from top end? If your friend is a mechanic, has he tested the fuel pressure?
3.) Fire
Pull a plug and wire. Do you see a blue spark when the motor turns over? Do you know if its actually a no spark situation or is it you or your freinds assumption since it cranks but will not start.
I take it you bought this as a project. Good luck and let us know what you find out.
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06-13-2021, 01:51 AM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Seattle,WA/HB,CA./Fujieda-Japan
Posts: 849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LETMGROW
The very first thing I would check would be the heavy wire plugged into the distributor cap to be sure you are getting 12V. to the distributor when the ignition switch is in the on position. On most passenger vehicles and light trucks this is a red wire with a white connector.
If your friend suspects a faulty ECM (computer) you might want to check with these people for testing before you just run out and buy one:
www.AUTOECMS.com (877) 687 3267 * (570) 883 9930
The pick up coil inside the distributor can be tested with an ohm meter. Some auto parts stores have ignition control module testers. The module would have to be removed to be tested. When installed the module requires a Di-Electric silicone grease between the module and the plate it's mounted to. If you buy a new module a small amount of this grease will be included with the module.
You should be able to find diagnostic information for your electrical and ignition system on various "You Tube" videos.
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No on di electric silicone grease for the ICM. The correct substance is 'thermal paste'. The very same paste used on a CPU for a motherboard.
93 TBI fuel pressure should be 9-13 psi. The 94-95 years were 28-32psi.
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07-18-2021, 10:04 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Seattle,WA/HB,CA./Fujieda-Japan
Posts: 849
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Small correction....
1994 - 1995 TBI fuel pressure spec is 26-32psi
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07-18-2021, 11:52 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianKGuitar
Hi. I know nothing about the combustion engine. Bought a 1993 Pace Arrow 34 foot with a Chevy 454. Chasis batteries and 12v all died over the year. I am new to rv thing, as a pro musician it seemed safe...
Anyway, some fine folks in the park said they knew how to change the batteries. Needless to say, after buying 3 batteries, they caught a 6v and 12v on fire.
Got the power right, a classic car mechanic buddy is doing it, he is a full time mech. It seems now its not getting spark or fuel. We replaced fuses, and got electrical sorted out, it will try to crank but never actually engage. Its a 93, so if the ECM is smoked, I should be able to find a refurbished or something. I read another thread discussing ECMs and I see a few folks who think it might not be...but we replaced fuses, coil on the alternator, burnt cables, batteries...and Im broke lol. Also, the generator, which is gas off the engine, will not engage either.
Thank you for any advice. God bless, drive safe.
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First sorry to hear of your troubles.
No spark.
No Fuel.
Definitely not good. I would replace the Ignition control module. Without it working you will never get spark, or trigger the injectors to fire.
Before that is checked. I would got to the ALDL (Assembly Line Diagnostic Link) and check for codes, and see if the ECM (Engine Control Module os functioning.
Many online threads on how to check the ALDL & Codes on the internet. On our 1995 chassis, the ALDL was tucked up high under the dash, (not visible from the instrument cluster access).
The connector (OBD1) On Board Diagnostic Connector should look like this. The standard procedure is to connect terminal A to terminal B, with the ignition key in the On position. If the computer is functioning properly, the code should flash code 12. That would be a single flash followed by two quick flashes. This code is the code for ignition On, No spark. If you get this, the computer is functioning correctly.
If the computer flashes code 12 twice, then it will flash any other stored codes, in the same manner. Once all codes are displayed, the computer will flash code 12 two more times.
Check this and get back with us, with your results.
__________________
Always bring your A game.
1996 Flair 29V, 454 TBI, 4L80E. Your life is your story, don't let someone dictate your story.
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07-19-2021, 07:35 AM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Seattle,WA/HB,CA./Fujieda-Japan
Posts: 849
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OBD-1 will flash (12 code) 3 times then flash any stored code/s. Then it will end with (12 code) 3 times.
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