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hawg6 · 08-06-2006, 06:34 PM

I have a 2004 Damon Intruder W350. To improve the handling I have upgraded the stabilized bar to the 2 1/2 inch bar, installed Bilstein shocks, a Davis front trac bar, a Henderson rear trac bar, and a Safe-T Plus stabilizer. The handling and ease of driving have improved greatly, but the ride is harsh when traveling over breaks in the pavement and rough road surface. I've read many positive comments from people that have changed from Monroe to Koni FSD shocks, but I'm curious as to the results of changing from Bilsten to Koni FSD shocks. I do not want to undo the improvement in handling the above modifications have made, but my wife would prefer a smoother ride. I hope someone will be able to offer their experience due to a Bilstein to Koni FSD change. I have also installed the Brazel's Ultrapower package including the reprogrammed ECM, CIA, Taylor wire, spark plug regap, and Aero mufflers. The results are remarkable. The power increased to the point the MH does not shift out of overdrive except for fairly steep long grades, where it would consistantly down shift prior to the Ultrapower upgrade. I had to modify the CIA to muffle the increased noise and now notice the increased exhaust noise. We can live with the increased exhaust noise as our mileage increased from 7+ MPG to 9MPG on our last trip.

hawg6 · 08-06-2006, 06:34 PM

I have a 2004 Damon Intruder W350. To improve the handling I have upgraded the stabilized bar to the 2 1/2 inch bar, installed Bilstein shocks, a Davis front trac bar, a Henderson rear trac bar, and a Safe-T Plus stabilizer. The handling and ease of driving have improved greatly, but the ride is harsh when traveling over breaks in the pavement and rough road surface. I've read many positive comments from people that have changed from Monroe to Koni FSD shocks, but I'm curious as to the results of changing from Bilsten to Koni FSD shocks. I do not want to undo the improvement in handling the above modifications have made, but my wife would prefer a smoother ride. I hope someone will be able to offer their experience due to a Bilstein to Koni FSD change. I have also installed the Brazel's Ultrapower package including the reprogrammed ECM, CIA, Taylor wire, spark plug regap, and Aero mufflers. The results are remarkable. The power increased to the point the MH does not shift out of overdrive except for fairly steep long grades, where it would consistantly down shift prior to the Ultrapower upgrade. I had to modify the CIA to muffle the increased noise and now notice the increased exhaust noise. We can live with the increased exhaust noise as our mileage increased from 7+ MPG to 9MPG on our last trip.

edgray · 08-06-2006, 06:40 PM

hawg6: that is an impressive list of upgrades you have completed! one thing you did not mention is what tire pressures are you running. Is it possible that you are riding on "harder" tires than is actually necessary for the weight you are carrying? ED

Teach · 08-06-2006, 06:49 PM

hawg6, we had a Bounder on a W22 chassis that we changed over to the Koni FSD's from the Bilsteins. It made a big difference in the ride. The Bilsteins were harsh and jarring, whereas the Koni's were "forgiving" while still providing great stability. Wife loved them.

hawg6 · 08-07-2006, 04:40 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by edgray:
hawg6: that is an impressive list of upgrades you have completed! one thing you did not mention is what tire pressures are you running. Is it possible that you are riding on "harder" tires than is actually necessary for the weight you are carrying? ED </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm running 95 PSI in the front and 90 PSI in the rear tires. I have not weighed the MH. I had the front end aligned,and the front tires balanced and turned at RV repair facility in Wildwood Florida, after my dealer in Ohio told me a vibration in the front end was normal. (The facility in Florida inflated the tires to 95 and 90 PSI, which are the pressures I continue to use). At one point the dealer in Ohio lowered the tire pressure to 90 and 85 PSI, but the vibration and ride did not seem to change. With the original factory shocks the ride was smoother, but the MH porpoised somewhat. Workhorse and/or the dealer apprised me the porpoising would have to get worse before they would address the problem, but them told me there was a inhancement package available to cure the problem. (The 2 1/2 inch bar and Bilstein shocks). That is is when I purchased the package which improved the handling, but made the ride rougher.

Captain Bud · 08-07-2006, 05:46 AM

Hawg6, As a point of interest how much did you spend on these upgrades????? And are you finished???

hawg6 · 08-07-2006, 06:28 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Captain Bud:
Hawg6, As a point of interest how much did you spend on these upgrades????? And are you finished??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Probably more than I should have. As my son-in-law stated, "doesn't Herb realize he bought a new MH?" At the onset the issue was safety, not that the original Workhorse setup was not safe?? (Issue with the 2 inch stablizer bar and whatever shock absorbers came originally). I feel Workhorse offers the best gasser cbassis. Guess I'll be finished after I make a decision relative to the Koni shocks. You make a good point, which is why I'm questioning the benefits vs. the drawbacks of the Koni shocks over the Bilstein's. After spending the money to upgrade to the Bilsteins 4000 or 5000 miles ago, it is hard to justify the expense of going to Koni's. Bottom line is if grandma isn't happy life is not good!! If changing the shocks without affecting the handling will improve the ride, thus making grandma comfortable it is a done deal. Grandma is pushing hard for a Diesel Pusher' based on conversations with DP owners. That would mean selling our home and going fulltime which is the other wish she has. Assuming I can leap this last hurdle I'm hopeful all will be good, which makes the money spent todate well worth the expenditure. iRV2 is a great site. Thanks for everyones input.

edgray · 08-07-2006, 06:44 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm running 95 PSI in the front and 90 PSI in the rear tires. I have not weighed the MH. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hawg6: With all due respect, may I strongly encourage you to get your coach weighed while it is loaded the way you normally travel. This should include you and the co-pilot, plus a full load of fuel and propane. Water tank should be at the level you normally carry. Without KNOWING how much weight you are carrying on each axle, it is impossible to properly set the tire pressure.

I recently attended a seminar put on by two engineers with Michelin. They stated that if an owner does not know his actual weights, they recommend the tires be inflated to the maximum side wall indicated pressure, which is 110 psi for the 235-80R/22.5 XRV tire. I can assure you this WILL cause you a very harsh ride, and it may not be necessary. SO, the best advice is - Get your weights and adjust your tires accordingly.

Since you are currently running the tires at pressures that should not contribute to the harsh ride, perhaps your discomfort IS shock related. Several years ago, when WCC first started dealing with owners complaining about the ride being too SOFT, and excessive bouncing, they were replacing the original equipment shocks with Monroe RV Gas Magnum shocks. That is what I got. They did a good job of eliminating the excessive bounce, and did not create a harsher ride. Some owners opted to bypass the Monroes and paid more to get the Bilstiens, which are now standard equippment on new WCC products. The general consus is that the Bilsteins provide more control and a "stiffer" ride, than do the Monroes. I understand a pair of Monroes can be bought for about $100.00 IF you wanted to experiment with them, in place of the Bilsteins you've already upgraded to. I've also been reading LOTS of good things about the new KONI FSD shocks, but they are pricey!!

Speaking of pricey, do you know about the Stabil-Air system available from Workhorse parts? It will put your entire coach on an air-bag based system for the smoothest possible ride. For about seven grand.

May I also suggest you go into your profile and add your rig-specific information to your "signature". This info will then be displayed across the bottom of all your posts and our members will be better able to answer your questions. Correct chassis recommendations and other info is more accurate when we can see what you have. ED

Captain Bud · 08-07-2006, 02:02 PM

As a Workhorse owner I recieved a notification from WH that if I wanted to improve my handling in tight situations and if I wanted to be able to view my dashboard I could put $1500 worth of mods on my coach. I questioned WH on this and as I type this have not had a response. I didn't want to get into a modification marathon wher if I add this I have to add that. The only change I did was to have the OEM shocks changed to Monroes. I inflate my tires to the Winnebago specs and get a great ride. I dont think it's WH business as to how I load my MH. I try to balance it as best I can. I run with very light tanks i.e. 10 gals fresh and empty waste tanks. Reading your posts I think that you are a bit overinflated which is causing a harsh ride.
My engine is completely stock, I follow the maintence intervals on all lubes and I am impressed with the amount of HP I have out of the box. My average MPG is between 7 and 8.5 and I dont care what I do , due to aerodynamics it won't improve...The only improvement I see to make is replacing my shocks all around with Monroes, this will be done in the next 10K miles. Maybe i'm easily satisfied and I can't get hopped up about the tranny not down shifting going up a hill. My goal is to enjoy the ride and the rest will take care of itself. I also look at the trade in after all the mods, do you think the dealer cares about what shocks, sway bar, trac bar you have??. He will give you the wholesale price on your year with amybe an adjustment for mileage, and I said maybe.....

DriVer · 08-07-2006, 03:54 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hawg6:
If changing the shocks without affecting the handling will improve the ride, thus making grandma comfortable it is a done deal.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Koni shock absorbers are the best option for folks that are highly demanding about obtaining the best possible ride, comfort and performance from their Workhorse motorhome.

I have run and or driven all the main shock options on the Workhorse and depending on which floorplan (read length) you may not need any suspension modifications.

I encourage new owners to run their motorhomes out for a few thousand miles and get a good seat in the pants feel for their particular motorhome before considering changing anything. You can't make an intelligent decision if you don't have all the facts. Time and miles will help you determine if anything can be improved. If a negative condition presents itself that you can constantly reproduce, this then is a determination on the driver's part that is just about as close to scientific method as possible.

Resolving a known condition with the appropriate component can improve on the ownership experience significantly when the condition becomes resolved to the satisfaction of the owner.

Koni shock absorbers were chosen by DSP to be installed as standard equipment on the Workhorse Stabil-Air suspension because they are excellent performing shocks. In a stand alone installation without the S-A kit you still can gain a significant improvement in the way your motorhome will ride down the road.

After installation, Grand Ma should be a very happy woman.

hawg6 · 08-07-2006, 04:40 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Captain Bud:
As a Workhorse owner I recieved a notification from WH that if I wanted to improve my handling in tight situations and if I wanted to be able to view my dashboard I could put $1500 worth of mods on my coach. I questioned WH on this and as I type this have not had a response. I didn't want to get into a modification marathon wher if I add this I have to add that. The only change I did was to have the OEM shocks changed to Monroes. I inflate my tires to the Winnebago specs and get a great ride. I dont think it's WH business as to how I load my MH. I try to balance it as best I can. I run with very light tanks i.e. 10 gals fresh and empty waste tanks. Reading your posts I think that you are a bit overinflated which is causing a harsh ride.
My engine is completely stock, I follow the maintence intervals on all lubes and I am impressed with the amount of HP I have out of the box. My average MPG is between 7 and 8.5 and I dont care what I do , due to aerodynamics it won't improve...The only improvement I see to make is replacing my shocks all around with Monroes, this will be done in the next 10K miles. Maybe i'm easily satisfied and I can't get hopped up about the tranny not down shifting going up a hill. My goal is to enjoy the ride and the rest will take care of itself. I also look at the trade in after all the mods, do you think the dealer cares about what shocks, sway bar, trac bar you have??. He will give you the wholesale price on your year with amybe an adjustment for mileage, and I said maybe..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree with the enjoy the ride. Guess that is why I've added the handling devices. Without the toad and minimum weight I felt the power was sufficient, but traveling in the mountains with the toad put a real load on the engine. Just do not like to work things to the maximum or until they break. Point in case is are the original equipment shock absorbers. Workhorse insisted that I wait until they fail and then have the MH weighted six ways from Sunday! Was not worth the effort, so I just purchased the parts and made the change. There was a gentleman in the service area who had just driven from Alaska with bad shocks and was in the middle of a fight to have the defective shocks replaced under warranty. He was told to get the weight slips and all the rest of the program. He insisted all the dealer had to do drive the MH down the road and back to determine whether the shocks were sufficient. They told him he would have to make an appointment. Not worth the effort. The manufacturer's sticker in my MH states the tire inflation should be 95 PSI front and 90 PSI rear. The ride with the original shocks was much smoother, but the MH porpoised and rock and rolled on less than flat roads. The parts I changed and added really did improve the handling and I will accept the harsh ride vs. reverting back to the original handling. Maybe I should have installed Monroe shocks, but I went with the manufacturers recommendation. I hope I never need for Safe-T Plus stablizer, but having been forced off the road in my previous MH with a stablizer that did not work, I feel more at ease knowing I shouldn't have to fight a 22000# MH with a toad should I blow a tire or go off the berm. I appreciate your input and like you I do not overlaod the MH and try to distribute the weight evenly. It is ashame they make these things so marginal. If we want all the conveniences offered in a gasser we will have to be more concerned with weight then the boys in the big DP's and accept the ride.

hawg6 · 08-07-2006, 04:56 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DriVer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hawg6:
If changing the shocks without affecting the handling will improve the ride, thus making grandma comfortable it is a done deal.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Koni shock absorbers are the best option for folks that are highly demanding about obtaining the best possible ride, comfort and performance from their Workhorse motorhome.
I have run and or driven all the main shock options on the Workhorse and depending on which floorplan (read length) you may not need any suspension modifications.

I encourage new owners to run their motorhomes out for a few thousand miles and get a good seat in the pants feel for their particular motorhome before considering changing anything. You can't make an intelligent decision if you don't have all the facts. Time and miles will help you determine if anything can be improved. If a negative condition presents itself that you can constantly reproduce, this then is a determination on the driver's part that is just about as close to scientific method as possible.

Resolving a known condition with the appropriate component can improve on the ownership experience significantly when the condition become resolved to the satisfaction of the owner.

Koni shock absorbers were chosen by DSP to be installed as standard equipment on the Workhorse Stabil-Air suspension because they are excellent performing shocks. In a stand alone installation without the S-A kit you still can gain a significant improvement in the way you motorhome will ride down the road.

After installation, Grand Ma should be a very happy woman. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I did follow your posting early on and made the changes (except for adding the Safety-T plus stabilizer withing a couple thousand miles ) starting at 8000 miles. I have 14,000 miles on the MH at this writing. Got to keep Grandma happy. You have been on target with your recommendations, so we will go for the Koni's.
Again I feel you have a handle on these situations, and appreciate your time and direction.

Captain Bud · 08-08-2006, 01:22 AM

I think that WH missed the boat on this one, if one goes back thru the many posts on this shock subject, WH had a varied policy, some owners only asked that they be replaced and others had to get weight tickets to get a replacement. Some were replaced with Monroes and some were replaced with Bilsteins, the Konis were out of pocket for the owner, if I am correct.
In closing, I am a very conservative driver, never speed and watch the weather for wind conditions, I'm retired so taking it easy and not having to be somewhere on a specific date is not necessary for me. I guess you would call me a laid back RVer ....LOL

DriVer · 08-08-2006, 01:40 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Captain Bud:
Some were replaced with Monroes and some were replaced with Bilsteins, the Konis were out of pocket for the owner, if I am correct. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Bud, Partially - Workhorse doesn't offer the FSD shock as a stand alone product. Konis are available directly from Koni USA and we have also seen them being available and priced as low as $125.00 each. Brazel's RV also has the shocks in stock as well. If you compare that to a $90 Bilstein the price differential isn't that substantial.

You know I had Monroes before the FSDs. The Monroes after about 30K miles started to go away so we moved up to FSDs by-passing the Bilsteins. I don't drive my motorhome as hard as you do by-the-way!

You should have seen this guy blow by me on the Bee Line one day. I see this spot in the background in my mirror and then all of a sudden - "whoosh" - my doors got blown off!

My wife turned to me and said. there goes Ruthie! ......

I would go with the shocks that make you feel comfortable. If Monroes work for you then that's a good thing!