Community Forums

rvguy02 · 12-06-2005, 08:41 AM

I just took the plunge and ordered the new Koni FSD shocks for my 35' 2001 Dolphin 5355. I'm on the 19.5" tire version of the W-22 (the first set National made on the W-22 had the smaller tires). The technology of these shocks seems incredible.

I've always experienced some porpoising with the coach and had mild "pushes" when strong gusts of wind or a particularly large 18 wheeler would pass me. It's never been unbearable, but it could be better too.

I'm certain the Koni's will solve the porpoising, but what about the wind/truck pushing? I have thought about getting the Henderson tracking bar based on many glowing reports on this forum. Any views pro/con about the Koni/Henderson combo?

I leave on the 18th for my annual Christmas in Disney trek, so I'm really looking forward to a better ride.

Stuart
2001 Dolphin 5355 W-22
Dodge Grand Caravan toad

rvguy02 · 12-06-2005, 08:41 AM

I just took the plunge and ordered the new Koni FSD shocks for my 35' 2001 Dolphin 5355. I'm on the 19.5" tire version of the W-22 (the first set National made on the W-22 had the smaller tires). The technology of these shocks seems incredible.

I've always experienced some porpoising with the coach and had mild "pushes" when strong gusts of wind or a particularly large 18 wheeler would pass me. It's never been unbearable, but it could be better too.

I'm certain the Koni's will solve the porpoising, but what about the wind/truck pushing? I have thought about getting the Henderson tracking bar based on many glowing reports on this forum. Any views pro/con about the Koni/Henderson combo?

I leave on the 18th for my annual Christmas in Disney trek, so I'm really looking forward to a better ride.

Stuart
2001 Dolphin 5355 W-22
Dodge Grand Caravan toad

Ultra RV Products · 12-06-2005, 10:17 AM

Rvguy,

You should definatly put on a trac bar.The Super Steer bar is nice & I just checked out the DIY bar & it's nice too.How much did you pay for the shocks?

rvguy02 · 12-06-2005, 10:27 AM

I paid $150 each, direct from Koni. I'm putting new tires on at the same time (G670). My original G670s are in pretty good shape, but at 4.5 years and sitting 10 months+ per year, I'm not taking any chances.

"007" · 12-06-2005, 12:01 PM

rvguy02 Welcome to irv2 and thanks for your input.

"007"

rvguy02 · 12-06-2005, 12:15 PM

Glad to be aboard. This is a great resource for RVers! The only "down side" is getting hooked on reading all the posts - and then realizing you've been online for 4-5 hours! Then again, it's better than watching TV!

DriVer · 12-06-2005, 06:56 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rvguy02:
The only "down side" is getting hooked on reading all the posts - and then realizing you've been online for 4-5 hours! Then again, it's better than watching TV! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You hit the nail right on the head!

suspension_engineer · 12-07-2005, 08:59 AM

Stuart,

The removal of the Bilsteins shocks and the addition of the Koni's you will actually experience a greater push during truck air loads. The Bilstein shocks add a substantial amount of suspension rate that both improves roll stiffness and porpoising. The suspension has to travel less to absorb the same amount of energy. Remember - suspensions are a juggling act of give and take so the result is a large increase in high frequency harshness.

The Koni and Bilstein shocks have been documented to control pitch equally but roll is very difficult to recreate the same inputs to compare apples to apples. All data collected to date is inconclusive for a better shock in roll. We helped Koni with the shock set-up and completely agree with the theory behind non-gas charged shock absorbers.

Last thing - remember that it is very difficult for a human being to admit that something that he has purchased is not the greatest thing since sliced bread. That's why we collect data and compare apples to apples - to try to find the truth.

rvguy02 · 12-07-2005, 11:51 AM

I'm a bit confused why you would say things would be worse with the Koni shocks. With the self-adjusting mechanism of the new Koni FSD shocks, they should be adaptable to changing road and wind conditions. BTW, I'm removing original shocks - I don't even know what they were back in 2001.

I've spoken with quite a few people with the same setup (Koni FSD shocks + Henderson) and they rave about how great it is (including someone with the same coach I have). As you know, the whole idea of the Koni FSDs is to absorb varying frequencies coming through the system. I also still see continued reports of the Bilsteins being too stiff - especially on older W-22 models. I made my decision based on research and discussions with others - what more can anyone do since you can't go out and test drive a coach with various shock setups - not to mention that every coach is different. Quite honestly, you are the first person I've seen to say anything negative about the Koni shocks. I also noticed you use them in the Stabil-air system, so there must be something good about them.

If the Koni shocks make things worse, I'll remove them and try something else. All I care about is a better riding coach. I'm also not going to worry about my decision - in fact, I'm looking forward to my first drive with the new shocks this Friday afternoon.

Stuart

Ultra RV Products · 12-07-2005, 12:15 PM

Stuart,

I can guarantee you will be happy with those Koni's,all of that technical jargon is nice.But the proof is in the pudding!

suspension_engineer · 12-08-2005, 02:49 AM

rvguy02,

I do not think I said it made the ride worse just different in roll stiffness. In fact we were exstatic that someone finally came out with a large bore shock that was not gas charged. Our coaches ride with the original FSD and have over 30k miles logged.

We chose the FSD for the Stabil-Air system because we have a substantial roll stiffness increase inherent in the front suspension. The result is a system that allows the shocks (dampers) do the job they are designed to do, remove energy (motion) from the coach.

rvguy02 · 12-08-2005, 04:28 AM

Suspension engineer,

My biggest concern with my coach has been up and down motion. The push I refer to (from trucks and wind) is more of a nuisance than anything else. Yes, I feel it, but it does NOT push me off the road or cause me to lose control. On the other hand, if I can minimize it, that would be preferable.

You stated that with Koni FSD shocks I would experience more pushing. I am asking you to clarify that - perhaps in more generic terms. I also reiterate that no coach is the same. Coaches made by National vs. Winnebago vs. Newmar, etc... will all behave in different ways no matter what we put on them. The fact that I have a report from someone driving the same model year and style coach as I have - with the same Koni/Henderson combo - is compelling to me. They report almost total elimination of the push now. I can't verify if the Koni or the Henderson is eliminating it. Maybe it's both working together. They also report a very smooth, non-harsh ride that they could not achieve when they had Bilsteins on their coach. Porpoising is gone. They added the Bilsteins a few months ago and took them off in favor of the Konis. That's all I needed to hear to make my decision an easy one.

Stuart

suspension_engineer · 12-08-2005, 06:12 AM

The up and down motion control will be very similar between the Koni and Bilstein shocks. The Bilsteins are gas charged that act like an added spring that is placed wide on the chassis. This will help in the resistance of the coach to roll. Roll combined with tire sidewall flex from the side wind load will cause the coach to shift. Reducing the roll therfore reduces the shift in your lane.

Now what do you lose : The Bilsteins with the added spring force add a substantial "harshness" to the ride quality. The Koni shocks lose the added roll control, but the harshness is completely removed. Back to the give and take that we fight everyday.

Now adding the track bar on the rear will bring back some of the roll control to the front and tremendous roll control in the rear. Now for the give and take : the track bar works by placing the hole suspension in a bind when it travels up and down. I like a track bar in a leaf spring suspension but most of the chassis builders do not want to pay the dollars required.

I have not thought that much about a track bar up front but initially I am concerned about the incredible forces it would generate under testing conditions and how that would transfer to steering control. A 50mph emergency lane change creates amazing vehicle motions and is not normal but must be tested.

Hope this helps a little

DriVer · 12-08-2005, 12:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by suspension_engineer:
I have not thought that much about a track bar up front but initially I am concerned about the incredible forces it would generate under testing conditions and how that would transfer to steering control. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>suspension_engineer, I run a front (Davis) and rear track bar (Henderson) and a Safe-T-Plus.

The rear track bar gives me a high degree of yaw control in fact more so I feel than having just added the front track bar. That said the front track bar has provided me with additional yaw control and coupled with the STP as a system allows me to drive effortlessly all day long with a loose hand on the wheel.

The front track bar addresses the yaw and the STP controls the bump steer. You should try out this type of configuration if you can.

I would attempt a 50 mph emergency lane change with my track bar setup however without the track bars fuggetaboutit! The front track bar gives me the most amount of control at highway speeds in a descending turn that you might get coming off of a grade. It just cuts through the turn without having to see-saw the steering wheel.

If I run into you out on the road someplace you can drive my rig and I'd like to drive yours. We'll be in Florida for the Tampa SuperShow, Lazy Days, and Brooksville. Look me up, I'm not hard to find.

At this time I'm looking for a shock absorber upgrade.