P32 wandering problem

[Aeronaut]

Originally Posted by D Gardiner

Long story short, I got our P31832 at 28,700 miles from my parents, who bought it new in 1996.
It is a 178” wheel base chassis, with 4-wheel disk brakes, 19.5 tires and the heavier control arms.
The first chassis upgrade/repair happened in 2018 with new air bags, and remote fill lines. The original bags just wouldn’t hold air more than a few days.
The second upgrade was sway bar bushings. The original ones fell out on our first drive home.
The third upgrade was an alignment. As mention earlier is did not make a big difference on our rig, as it was very close.
The fourth upgrade was new tires. They made a huge difference is both ride quality, and handling (after the 300 mile break-in procedure). Yes, the myth that sind new tires feel squirrelly is true.
The fifth upgrade was the driver side bell crank from Supersteer. It made a huge difference in steering play.

At this point the RV handled pretty good, but something still wasn’t quite right. Now at about 31,000 miles, and a big southwest summer road tour vacation. We did notice quite a bit of push from passing semi trucks.

On home, I ordered a rear track bar, and the push from trucks diminished. Let’s call that upgrade six. It was acid tested in a rain storm, with high winds, whole driving home from Yosemite after Christmas. We would surely have ended up in a ditch, without that track bar.
At this point the rig was still drooping in the front (too much for my taste), and had our rig 4-corner weighed. This is when we got the matched Supersteer springs. Upgrade seven was finished, and the rig finally sat level.
Then one day in 2019 the rig stared to change direction of travel on a straight road, with no wind, and no trucks. It felt like the front end was steering itself, even when I held the steering wheel firm. Turned out we had two steering tie rods that were worn out. Replaced all four tie rods and the sleeves. After another alignment the rig was very predictable, and upgrade eight was in the books.
Upgrade nine and ten was replacing the rear springs, bushings and adding some Sumosprings. The rear springs and bushings further helped improve the ride, but the Sumosprings did not do much on our rig.

2021 we took another huge tour through five western states. We wanted to upgrade our front sway bar before we left on our trip, but Road Master had trouble getting the steel to make our front swaybar. Will say upgrade 11, was huge. On my Sierra mountain run last week the rig experience almost zero push from big rigs.

It’s been a long journey. Today she sits at 42,000 miles. Each upgrade and repair as been worth it. My wife feels safe when she drive Maggie now. Did my research, used my retired mechanic noodle to isolate and identify problems, and only changed one component at a time, with hundreds of miles between upgrade to determine what was the next course of action.

Excellent write up! Thank you. I like your progressive approach to improvements. Just to make sure, your #11 upgrade was the Road Master sway bar. Was this a much heavier duty bar as opposed to your original? The one on the front of our rig, I think is the heavy duty Work horse 1 1/2 in. bar. I need to measure it. I only have 25K on my rig now. I guess that the bell crank inspection and super steer crank is first in order, and checking tie rods, ball joints, etc. It appears that these chassis parts wear much earlier than I would have expected. Thanks again for your time.
Jeff

[D Gardiner]

Originally Posted by Aeronaut

Excellent write up! Thank you. I like your progressive approach to improvements. Just to make sure, your #11 upgrade was the Road Master sway bar. Was this a much heavier duty bar as opposed to your original? The one on the front of our rig, I think is the heavy duty Work horse 1 1/2 in. bar. I need to measure it. I only have 25K on my rig now. I guess that the bell crank inspection and super steer crank is first in order, and checking tie rods, ball joints, etc. It appears that these chassis parts wear much earlier than I would have expected. Thanks again for your time.
Jeff

Our 1996 (10/95 chassis) the front sway bar was on 1-1/4" in diameter, with the rear bar measuring 1-3/4". The Road Master bar measures 1 5/8" in diameter.

In our case, going from such a small front bar to the Road Master was night and day. Heck, IROC-Z front bar on my Buick G-Body Regal is 1-5/16", and it only has to hold a 3600 pound car from swaying. How GM thought a 18,000 pound RV was good with a 1-1/4" bar I'll never know.

So, the nitty gritty.
Using a sway bar calculator (without knowing what metallurgy specs. GM & Road Master used).

Bars
1.250" ≈ 476 lbs./in.
1.500" ≈ 987 lbs./in.
1.625" ≈ 1360 lbs./in.

Percentage increase in stiffness:
1.25" to 1.625" ≈285% increase in stiffness
1.50" to 1.625" ≈137-138% increase in stiffness

On your rig, with the optional 1-1/2" front sway bar, the Road Master 1-5/8 bar would only make a marginal improvement.

On your rig, good quality Energy Suspension polyurethane bushings (front and rear) would be noticeable, at a much smaller cost.

[Aeronaut]

Originally Posted by D Gardiner

Long story short, I got our P31832 at 28,700 miles from my parents, who bought it new in 1996.
It is a 178” wheel base chassis, with 4-wheel disk brakes, 19.5 tires and the heavier control arms.
The first chassis upgrade/repair happened in 2018 with new air bags, and remote fill lines. The original bags just wouldn’t hold air more than a few days.
The second upgrade was sway bar bushings. The original ones fell out on our first drive home.
The third upgrade was an alignment. As mention earlier is did not make a big difference on our rig, as it was very close.
The fourth upgrade was new tires. They made a huge difference is both ride quality, and handling (after the 300 mile break-in procedure). Yes, the myth that sind new tires feel squirrelly is true.
The fifth upgrade was the driver side bell crank from Supersteer. It made a huge difference in steering play.

At this point the RV handled pretty good, but something still wasn’t quite right. Now at about 31,000 miles, and a big southwest summer road tour vacation. We did notice quite a bit of push from passing semi trucks.

On home, I ordered a rear track bar, and the push from trucks diminished. Let’s call that upgrade six. It was acid tested in a rain storm, with high winds, whole driving home from Yosemite after Christmas. We would surely have ended up in a ditch, without that track bar.
At this point the rig was still drooping in the front (too much for my taste), and had our rig 4-corner weighed. This is when we got the matched Supersteer springs. Upgrade seven was finished, and the rig finally sat level.
Then one day in 2019 the rig stared to change direction of travel on a straight road, with no wind, and no trucks. It felt like the front end was steering itself, even when I held the steering wheel firm. Turned out we had two steering tie rods that were worn out. Replaced all four tie rods and the sleeves. After another alignment the rig was very predictable, and upgrade eight was in the books.
Upgrade nine and ten was replacing the rear springs, bushings and adding some Sumosprings. The rear springs and bushings further helped improve the ride, but the Sumosprings did not do much on our rig.

2021 we took another huge tour through five western states. We wanted to upgrade our front sway bar before we left on our trip, but Road Master had trouble getting the steel to make our front swaybar. Will say upgrade 11, was huge. On my Sierra mountain run last week the rig experience almost zero push from big rigs.

It’s been a long journey. Today she sits at 42,000 miles. Each upgrade and repair as been worth it. My wife feels safe when she drive Maggie now. Did my research, used my retired mechanic noodle to isolate and identify problems, and only changed one component at a time, with hundreds of miles between upgrade to determine what was the next course of action.

Sorry it took so long. I changed my internet provider and lost my email, and hence my ability to log on here, then didn't have the ability to talk or answer this thread. Thanks to many emails back and forth the administrators did a wonderful job of getting it fixed. So, now I've been in SE Asia for a while and and NYC where we had a great time, but ended up getting Covid. Finally on the mend and can get back to work.
Thank you for the great write up! I'm definitely into making some of the changes you and others have suggested about steering gear, actually loved everything you suggested. I am a DIY so I'll be working on this probably in a few more months. Luckily I have a heated shop to keep her in so I'll try to change sway bar bushings out first. Right now am tied up trying to lubricate my noisy slide out.
Your write up is A 1, thank you for taking the time. I meant to ask if you did any of the work yourself, and if you didn't was there any particular shops that you suggest for the work. Again much thanks

[Aeronaut]

Originally Posted by Fyrflie

https://supersteerparts.com/products...rack-only.html

Thank you for the link! Much appreciated

[Aeronaut]

I want to thank everybody for their suggestions. Once I actually get some work done I will report back in a few months.

One question I do have is what are peoples thoughts on having different shops work on their rigs. I have a hard time with trust when it comes to these shops. I find a terrible problem with some shop's and their lack of integrity?

I live in Southwest Washington (close to Vancouver, WA).

I've just stopped at a few Camping Worlds, and see they offer quite a variety of work. I would be glad to know if anyone has some experience with them. Thank you in advance

[edgray]

Originally Posted by Aeronaut

I want to thank everybody for their suggestions. Once I actually get some work done I will report back in a few months.

One question I do have is what are peoples thoughts on having different shops work on their rigs. I have a hard time with trust when it comes to these shops. I find a terrible problem with some shop's and their lack of integrity?

I live in Southwest Washington (close to Vancouver, WA).

I've just stopped at a few Camping Worlds, and see they offer quite a variety of work. I would be glad to know if anyone has some experience with them. Thank you in advance

Generally speaking there a very few RV dealers that have ANY competence for working on Chassis issues. SOME RV dealers do have competency at repairing HOUSE-related issues. The LAST place I would go to have ANYTHING done to my RV is CW.

I think you will be best served by finding a medium-situ truck repair shop for work on you chassis, and an RV repairs shop that specializes in coach repairs and doesn't sell RVs. Generally speaking, they HAVE to do a good job because service is all they offer (but they are hard to find).

[Aeronaut]

Originally Posted by edgray

Generally speaking there a very few RV dealers that have ANY competence for working on Chassis issues. SOME RV dealers do have competency at repairing HOUSE-related issues. The LAST place I would go to have ANYTHING done to my RV is CW.

I think you will be best served by finding a medium-situ truck repair shop for work on you chassis, and an RV repairs shop that specializes in coach repairs and doesn't sell RVs. Generally speaking, they HAVE to do a good job because service is all they offer (but they are hard to find).

Thanks for checking in edgray. That is exactly what my experience has been with autos in general. I bought my youngest son a car to learn to drive in, it was running a little rough and I didn't have time to work on it myself, so I took it to a repair shop where they did a head gasket job on it. No change in running. He then said that the piston rings were just sticking a put some marvel mystery oil in the spark plug holes to let soak into the piston rings to loosen them. I added more when I got home---when I added it, I could hear it leaking into the crank case! Sure enough, I though I didn't have time, I pulled the head and there was s small hole in the piston. I have not been able to trust anyone to do repairs since, but I'm getting long in the tooth, to do everything anymore. If someone did a bang up job on a maintenance issue or repair (I get sticker shock) I'd gladly pay some of the prices I'm quoted anymore, but there's the problem. Thanks for telling me your mind and what I expected to hear about CW.

[EyezOpen]

I'll try to keep this short, find a heavy truck shop. Keep away from chain store's. Since your fairly close below is a link to a competent shop. They have the expertise and experience to fix such matters. Remember it's not so much what to do..But What Not To Do.

https://www.hendersonslineup.com/

[D Gardiner]

Originally Posted by Aeronaut

I meant to ask if you did any of the work yourself, and if you didn't was there any particular shops that you suggest for the work. Again much thanks

Yes, did most of the work myself. It helps being a retired mechanic having the specialty tools and jacks to work on the suspension. With that said, I work pretty slow, and never get more than one wheel off the ground.

Not sure what your skills are, but. changing the front (or even the rear) sway bar bushings is not very difficult. Removing the bell crank was much harder, as the taper bolt for the link did not want to separate easily. Had to use my oversize pickle fork and a 5 pound sledge to get it loose.

Have the old-school 1970's Ammco camber/caster gauge, and used to perform alignments from 1988-1995, but find it easier to let someone else do the alignment.

[Aeronaut]

Originally Posted by D Gardiner

Yes, did most of the work myself. It helps being a retired mechanic having the specialty tools and jacks to work on the suspension. With that said, I work pretty slow, and never get more than one wheel off the ground.

Not sure what your skills are, but. changing the front (or even the rear) sway bar bushings is not very difficult. Removing the bell crank was much harder, as the taper bolt for the link did not want to separate easily. Had to use my oversize pickle fork and a 5 pound sledge to get it loose.

Have the old-school 1970's Ammco camber/caster gauge, and used to perform alignments from 1988-1995, but find it easier to let someone else do the alignment.

Thanks D. Glad to hear I'm not the only one. I have had experience in brake repairs i.e., rotor replacement or turning, caliper rebuilds, and front bearing replacement and packing on a Georgie boy diesel pusher. I'm pretty sure I can do the basics, non of this is beyond me if I take my time. Just not as energetic as I used to be. I think I'm going to go with the stiffer (larger) front springs that Workhorse recommended. I'll be checking the ball joints and if the bell cranks are worn. Anyway thanks to getting back to me, now if I can just get motivated

[Mark_K5LXP]

Originally Posted by Aeronaut

I think I'm going to go with the stiffer (larger) front springs that Workhorse recommended.

Where did you find this recommendation and what springs do they specifically recommend?

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

[LETMGROW]

I can't remember where I read about it but I do remember a couple folks saying they had control arm problems after replacing the original springs with stronger ones.
You need to get into contact with these folks. They are advertisers on this forum and are actually located in Centralia Washington.
https://www.ultrarvproducts.com/inde...ormation_id=16
Many folks on this forum are familiar with this company and have bought from them as well as received some sound advice from them, myself included.
This is where I bought my "Tiger Trac" kit from. A good quality kit that performed as well as it was claimed it would.
I did my own install on the "Tiger Trac" track bar. Pretty straight forward and the instructions were clear and well illustrated. If you do buy this kit, ask me about a couple tips I can pass along to you or for that matter this goes for anyone else who is going to use one of these kits or one similar to it.
Lynn

[Aeronaut]

Originally Posted by Mark_K5LXP

Where did you find this recommendation and what springs do they specifically recommend?

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

Mark, I had this recommendation from Brazels RV in Centralia WA. They said they have a stiffer spring set to make sure the chassis sits at the correct height without the air bags. The front set is just at around 400$ currently from Brazels. They will not sell the springs till you have a weight for your front axel load. The springs are made by supersteer. This should be the links:
https://supersteerparts.com/products...le-weight.html
I'm almost 100% sure that as soon as I have the amount in my piggy bank, that will be my first purchase.
Good Luck

[Aeronaut]

Originally Posted by LETMGROW

I can't remember where I read about it but I do remember a couple folks saying they had control arm problems after replacing the original springs with stronger ones.
You need to get into contact with these folks. They are advertisers on this forum and are actually located in Centralia Washington.
https://www.ultrarvproducts.com/inde...ormation_id=16
Many folks on this forum are familiar with this company and have bought from them as well as received some sound advice from them, myself included.
This is where I bought my "Tiger Trac" kit from. A good quality kit that performed as well as it was claimed it would.
I did my own install on the "Tiger Trac" track bar. Pretty straight forward and the instructions were clear and well illustrated. If you do buy this kit, ask me about a couple tips I can pass along to you or for that matter this goes for anyone else who is going to use one of these kits or one similar to it.
Lynn

Thanks Letmegrow, I've read from one poster that believes that a crack in his lower control arm was due to this modification. I believe that everything he says is factual, but there are others that like the mod. I am not a fan of the present set up, so I will make sure the rig is weighed correctly for the mod, i.e. front axel weight known. They sell the springs in indexes of 500 pounds for required weights. All I can say is that once I'm able to get to this is that I will keep you all updated