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Old 02-27-2009, 10:41 AM   #57
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I wonder which will come out first, the bulbs I planted around the MH or nhtsa"s findings. LOL

Hang in there rich I feel you pain!
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Old 02-27-2009, 03:00 PM   #58
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My Impressions....FWIW

It's seems this dealer is trying to cover his A... with both hands. First, there isn't a dealer out there that isn't making a profit or they wouldn't be in business. The fact that this guy is trying to play both sides of the table and by the way, talking out of both sides of his mouth now, which is RV sales 101, tells me he isn't anymore creditable than the rest of his "used car salesmen" partners. We as consumers are unfortunately at their mercy if we want to buy, sell, or trade. I would venture to say that most people that have been caught up in a trade/exchange come out average $30K short on the trade. This probably ends up being the margin the dealer makes on the average trade. I don't feel sorry for them! You Joe trader, is going to live with that short fall the entire RV life.
As far as not taking "certain" workhorse models
at "this time" tells me he is just hedging his bets until the right deal comes along for him. Then he will consider his bottom line.

Enough venting, stay away! Who ever it is.
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Old 02-27-2009, 03:28 PM   #59
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Richard 34A:

I bet engineers love it when the the layperson over-rides safety features that they spend millions of dollars perfecting... ABS is far only being necessary on ice or snow.


Would you care to expound on the above statement?

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Old 02-28-2009, 06:04 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by angelman:
I wonder which will come out first, the bulbs I planted around the MH or nhtsa"s findings. LOL

Hang in there rich I feel you pain!

Nice Mustang Tom. Is it a 71 ??
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Old 02-28-2009, 04:49 PM   #61
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Dieselclacker, sure do agree with your feelings about ABS. How did so many of us old timers manage to drive for so many years without ABS?

I'm just about ready to turn 45k miles, brakes have never been touched, and have no plans to do anything unless necessary.
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Old 02-28-2009, 05:07 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by dieselclacker:
... ABS is far only being necessary on ice or snow.
Dieselclacker, I appreciate the fact that my ABS stopped us quickly when I hit a patch of sand on the highway recently. Also works on leaves, rainy surfaces and many other slippery surfaces other than ice and snow which are absent here in the south.
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Old 02-28-2009, 07:03 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by al koffman:
Dieselclacker, sure do agree with your feelings about ABS. How did so many of us old timers manage to drive for so many years without ABS?
i remember cars without air bags and seat belts and solid bumpers but those days are gone too. cant ride in the back of a open pick up truck bed either or kids riding a bike with out a helmet but its all based on safety. look at tests of abs and in a panik stop most can not out brake abs unless your a professionel race driver. lots of proof in car mags the main point is in a panik stop tht people arent expacting

costs lots of money to build and ingineer safety stuff and its not there just because-- abs is not mandated by govermnet
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Old 03-01-2009, 02:48 AM   #64
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I guess the ABS I have experience are junk. Using ABS in Ohio I almost ran over a Amish buggy. It was just slowing ever so slow like I had half a brake. Last year in Co I made a panic stop with the fuse out, she stopped right now, just like it should, Although I worried for a day or two that I had hurt brakes, but still working.
I just traded in a 2003 Silverado Z71 with 14,000 miles on a Nissian Frontier because the ABS was so bad I was a afraid to drive it. I had so many near misses with the Chevy, there had to be something wrong with it.
I now have no ABS on anything I own. I just hate ABS
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Old 03-01-2009, 04:50 AM   #65
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Have to put my two cents worth in. I have a 2003 GMC Yukon XL with 71,000 miles. My ABS works just fine. Being in Michigan, I can test it a lot on snow and ice. Very quick response with good steering control. I have not had the opportunity to test the ABS on my 03 W22. (Thank God) Perhaps the 03 Silverado traded in had a defect??? Happy Motoring John
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Old 03-01-2009, 05:11 AM   #66
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The benefits of ABS brakes are far more numerous than the faults. Like any piece of mechanical or electrical equipment, there will be an accepted and reasonable failure rate. If the failure rate is too high, then it needs to be fixed. The problem is when yours is the ONE that fails, the rate is too high for you personally.

My experiences with ABS have all been good. Several stops on slick streets could not have been made safety without the benefit of the ABS system. The steering control with the ABS is great.

The one thing that can not be fixed by the ABS is the lack of experience of the person behind the wheel. Until we can have an automatic over-ride on the human brain, we will have to take some responsibility upon ourselves to know when and how to drive in certain situations.

That is my 2 cents worth....and with that and 3 more cents you can have a nickel.

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Old 03-01-2009, 05:22 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by UltraClassicElectraGlide:

i remember cars without air bags and seat belts and solid bumpers but those days are gone too. cant ride in the back of a open pick up truck bed either or kids riding a bike with out a helmet but its all based on safety. look at tests of abs and in a panik stop most can not out brake abs unless your a professionel race driver. lots of proof in car mags the main point is in a panik stop tht people arent expacting

costs lots of money to build and ingineer safety stuff and its not there just because-- abs is not mandated by govermnet


Lots of drivers have the misconception that ABS braking systems allow a vehicle to stop faster under all driving conditions. This simply is not so. Anti-Skid Brakes are just what the name says they are, the system if properly working, will not allow a wheel to skid, regardless of the surface the vehicle is traveling on. This is particularly valuable in trying to stop a vehicle that is used to traverse ice, snow, wet, and yes DriVer.. leaves or sand covered roads. Stopping the vehicle from skidding on a dry surface, however, is another story. The hydraulic pressure is inturpeted to the offending wheel for an instant, which causes the wheel not to skid, but at the same time takes the stopping force from that wheel, which causes the vehicle to travel further before coming to a stop.

I am not knocking ABS braking, I am simply saying where and when I drive my motorhome, I prefer being able to stop in a shorter stopping distance for the vast majority of my driving. If I traveled in the slippery conditions described above, I would probably not have the ABS de-fused.

I am not a lay person on this matter. I worked for many years as a technician for Mercedes Benz, who was a pioneer in the ABS field in this country. I was working on ABS systems on automobiles way back in my other life in the 1980's. The theory and operation of the system is still the same when used on motorhomes or cars, electronics and haredware may have changed some since then.

UltraClassic, no the ABS system is not government mandated, and yes it is a safety feature for driving on slick surfaces, but comming to a panic stop on a dry surface is not one of its sterling features.
I might add, since the ABS is an electro-mechanical system, it is subject to failure, and can cause braking problems should such failure occur.

Sorry to be such a windbag, but just my opinion on the subject.

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Old 03-01-2009, 06:14 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by dieselclacker:
Sorry to be such a windbag, but just my opinion on the subject.
Dieselclacker, Thank you for sharing your expertise it goes a long way into putting things into correct perspective.

If for nothing else, and under dry road conditions, I would prefer to have ABS "because" while the ABS circuit is engaged you as a driver retain directional control much better than if you were in a 4 wheel lockup condition.

My experience goes back to our new at the time Dodge Caravan with 4 wheel ABS. While I was driving on the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut, I came upon an exit which I knew was there but for some reason I was going a bit faster than I would have wanted to entering the exit. These exits were made for 1930's type vehicles where they have a sharp 180 radius.

Once I was committed I realized I had an over-speed condition that I was forced to deal with. Naturally I stepped on the brake hard and kept the pedal to the metal. My experience was a significant reduction in forward speed and the fact that the car took the corner like it was on rails. I would not want to replicate that moment in time that's for sure.

From that day till this I am a firm believer that ABS has a place in modern vehicle construction.

I do bow to your expertise in this matter and what you have shared with us is not far from fact. Thanks!
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Old 03-01-2009, 08:05 AM   #69
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DriVer, its that last inch before you collide with the object in front of you that matters most.

I recently purchased a Honda CRV that is equipped with Vehicle Stability control system. Now that is a horse of a different color. Computer control of each individual brake and engine throttle. Now that supposedly would get you around the off-ramp curve without going on your head. I have given it a tryout a couple of times, intentionaly, and it does work as advertised. It does come with an on/off switch for the system if you want to drive like Jeff Gordon, and do a little four wheel drifting at times.

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Old 03-01-2009, 08:51 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by dieselclacker:
... that is equipped with Vehicle Stability control system. Now that is a horse of a different color.
Dieselclacker, Me too!

08 Vue has Stabilitrack however there's a switch to disable it. Just when you think you're going to need a gizmo the most they suggest you turn the thing off!
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