WORKHORSE CUSTOM CHASSIS SERVICE BULLETIN - 60701-T

[max49]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by skipsor:


Max49, I believe you said that you have modified your motorcycles. You did it because you thought they would run better, go faster, etc. Nobody bothered you when you did your aftermarket work so get off our backs for doing the same thing.

QUOTE]
I did'nt mean to appear that I was on your backs for modifying your motorhome. It yours, you paid for it, do what you want with it. And personaly I'd bet there is nothing wrong with it.
I was defending WH because many pages ago people with the modification seemed to be shocked that if they have serious engine damage , even if it had nothing to do with the UP , will probably be on their own to fix it.
Yamaha's not going to warranty mine after I made the modifications but I certainly knew that. I also race the motorcycle so it needs to go fast.
Having said that, if someone buys a used MH, I wonder if any one will tell them it's been modified. I doubt it, especially if it's a dealer saleman.

[WilyRay]

Max49 you said something I can agree with and that is the probability that the salesman would not tell of an ECM Upgrade. I'm not sure that they would not tell because of the issues discussed to death on this topic or simply because of not knowing or not caring about the details of the rig. I, however, would definitely tell because I am proud that my rig is better than it was and would take a prospective buyer out to see what it is I am proud of. As stated on another topic, it is the handling, not changes in gas mileage.
We can all give ourselves credit for strength of conviction. It seems that some can improve their skills at accepting opinions that differ from their "True, Truth".

Regards,

[Full-Timers]

I don't understand why this post has so many responses. Every auto manufacturer has the same policy and always has. A lot of you people have to go back to school and learn to comprehend what you read . Workhorse/GM did not state that your warranty would be void if you add aftermarket modifications. They simply state that if the modification damages something they won't warranty the damage. NO DUH! No manufactures will. If you fail to change your oil for 25,000 miles and the water pump fails, your warranty is not void. If you don't have GM perform your oil changes and you have an oil related failure, you could be denied a warranty claim. As mike said, there have been NO failures due to the Ultra Power upgrade so there are no warranties denied. I doubt that Mike or any other aftermarket manufacturer will jeopardize their company by manufacturing a product that damages the product it's designed for. That's just downright stupid business. Also, if your engine fails and it is found to have Mike's Ultra Power installed, the warranty is still not void unless it is determined the Ultra Power caused the failure.

I would also like to state that I have absolutely NO upgrades or modifications on my W22 Workhorse chassis except Napa filters (I could be denied an oil related failure due to the Napa filter). I just like the way it performs, stock.

Thanks for listening.

[John-D]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by max49:
I just don't think it is all that flattering to WH that so many people feel they have to add all these upgrades to make them happy with their purchase. Even to the point of jeopardizing their warranty for them and anyone else who buys their MH in the future. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

NO I think it's American. Several years ago I read a short story (The feature of the magazine was called "Probility Zero" where two scientists were riding in to work together and discussing their job. Their job was faster than light travel. Well, as time passes the speed limit keeps going up and up and folks keep on a-breaking the law. Finally they hit on the way to get FTL, They got congress to set the speed limit at the speed of light and within 2 weeks someone was going faster than light.

That, is of course, a joke, and fiction.

But the fact is that many americans are NEVER happy with the power of their engines, always want to squeeze out an extra HP or MPG, and most engines can indeed be fine tuned for better performance. (There is, far as I know, one exception, Selected Detroit Diesels) The reason for this is what is called the law of decreasing returns.

When you fine tune an engine, there comes a point where the additional work needed to get that extra foot per gallon, or extra pony power costs more than the benefit from doing so.

GM, FORD, Chrysler, and ____ (engine maker of choice) stop well before that point. Ultra Power, Banks and the like shave it real close and often cross the line (You spend 1,000 dollars to save 800) When the Penske's ran Detroit Diesel they maxed out their engines (At least per my brother who owns one) but then one would expect them to do so. And they did.

[Oemtech]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This bulletin applies to all Engines but is most specific to 8.1 gasoline engines used in Motorhomes. Most Commercial and Fleet owners do not allow engine system modifications as they better understand the negative results that are possible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Full Timers
The above quote is somewhat specific, pointing at UltraPower in my opinion as I do not know of any other company the specifically has done any work on motorhomes.

John-D
GM, Ford,____ or whom even will tune for federal and/or state specs and probably no more. That's due to cost and no benefit to them.

The marine 8.1 comes standard with over 400hp. The race versions (used in off shore boat racing) run from 750 hp to the 1000+ depending on what is done to them.

In the hot rod business get the first half of the HP increase is the easiest and cheapest (heads, cam, fuel, exhaust). Getting the other half is hard and expensive (extra machining, head work, fuel system tuning etc). The same goes with our motorhomes.

How many of us will have a rig for 100,000 to begin with. I suspect I will be taking a "Dirt Nap" by that time.

[YosemiteBobR]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oemtech:
[QUOTE]This bulletin applies to all Engines but is most specific to 8.1 gasoline engines used in Motorhomes.

The marine 8.1 comes standard with over 400hp. The race versions (used in off shore boat racing) run from 750 hp to the 1000+ depending on what is done to them.

. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had two 454's replaced with two 8.1's in my houseboat this last summer, talked to the dealer, and was told, I could download, modify, and/or chip the engines, with no lose of warranty, Wonder why there is such a discrepancy in difference. Mentioned the bulletin provided and was told to ignore it. He had spoke to the dealer (Mercruiser)and confirmed it.

[dieselclacker]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Geechee:
Exempted parts are add-on or modified parts that have undergone an ARB engineering evaluation. If the part or modification is shown to not increase vehicle emissions, it is granted an exemption to emission control system anti-tampering laws. This exemption is called an Executive Order (EO) and allows the modification to be installed on specific emission controlled vehicles. Every Executive Order part or modification has an assigned number that can be verified by Smog Check stations, BAR Referee stations, or by the ARB.

Geechee, thanks for the explanation concerning California emission laws and exemptions. This should answer the question about Executive Orders that are required for exempted parts.

Rickand cheryl: You can probably get a Pre-test done on your rig at the smog station before it is officially tested for your smog certification. Yes, the air cleaner modification is illegal in California, however it is usually a judgement call by the smog technician doing the certification. Same thing for the ECM, it is
strictly a visual. I am sure your rig will pass the tailpipe emission portion. All the rest with the exception of the fuel tank cap is at the call of the technician. Try the pre-test, usually cost less than $30 bucks.

Dieselclacker

[Full-Timers]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oemtech:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This bulletin applies to all Engines but is most specific to 8.1 gasoline engines used in Motorhomes. Most Commercial and Fleet owners do not allow engine system modifications as they better understand the negative results that are possible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Full Timers
The above quote is somewhat specific, pointing at UltraPower in my opinion (Ah, the key word, "in my opinion"�. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.) as I do not know of any other company the specifically has done any work on motorhomes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Possibly because it's a WORKHORSE CUSTOM CHASSIS SERVICE BULLETIN and Workhorse uses "8.1 gasoline engines used in Motorhomes".

[Oemtech]

Who/Whom do you think is paying the bill for an engine warranty GM or WCC? So where is the pressure to reissue this Bulletin coming from.

Also, think about a few of the line items like:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"¢ Any change in PCM, TCM or ECM calibrations.
"¢ Any change or modifications to the engines exhaust system.
"¢ Any change or modification to the air cleaner or intake system. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yet - GM, and Allison approve of the WCC SSC option.

OBTW - You guys that have not had the PCM/ECM update may want to call WCC/GM to get the proper fuels tables update as many are backwards. Gee, I guess WCC/GM forgot to notify you of that. So, I guess if you fry a piston and your out of warranty and it was caused by a bad fuel table... Who pays?

AND

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Workhorse Custom Chassis Dealers should never change a powertrain system design or calibration. Such action could result in major fines from the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency).

Customers that have modifications made by outside shops should be informed that the changes most often do not provide any significant benefit in fuel mileage and power without resulting in major calibration changes that are detrimental to engine durability and certified emissions control. Damages caused by these changes will not be covered by warranty. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This pure FUD and NIH

[M&EM]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oemtech:

OBTW - You guys that have not had the PCM/ECM update may want to call WCC/GM to get the proper fuels tables update as many are backwards. Gee, I guess WCC/GM forgot to notify you of that. So, I guess if you fry a piston and your out of warranty and it was caused by a bad fuel table... Who pays? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

oemtech,

Do you know of a specific document issued by GM or WCC regarding these fuel table updates?
Might come in handy down the road!

Marty

[Tom N]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by YosemiteBobR:
I had two 454's replaced with two 8.1's in my houseboat this last summer, talked to the dealer, and was told, I could download, modify, and/or chip the engines, with no lose of warranty, Wonder why there is such a discrepancy in difference. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A few months ago GM upped their warranty to 100,000 miles. Did that carry over to marine engines???

[max49]

I have a hypothetical question as I'm sure no one on these forums would do this but I know a lot of Powerstroke owners with chips giving them 400 HP plus. My boss for example has a 3 different settings for his chip, all at a flip of a switch. I asked him if he had to reinforce the back of his seats to keep them from breaking off when he shows off.
Just say you had the ultrapower and even tho it had nothing to do with the U.P., you just got a bad engine from the time it was new and you either threw a rod or it started knocking.
Rather than argue with WH, could'nt you just take the U.P. off, put every thing back to original, and then take it in to get repaired?
I know this could be done, but would it be a big deal? This is what I would do. I would'nt want to put WH thru all that grief arguing with me about whether it was the engine or the U.P. that caused the problem.
The bad part now is that since WH sent out this bulletin recently, they obviously know this is going on and want to let us know that they know about it.

[YosemiteBobR]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom N:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by YosemiteBobR:
I had two 454's replaced with two 8.1's in my houseboat this last summer, talked to the dealer, and was told, I could download, modify, and/or chip the engines, with no lose of warranty, Wonder why there is such a discrepancy in difference. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



A few months ago GM upped their warranty to 100,000 miles. Did that carry over to marine engines??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Two years, sorry to get off the topic here

[skipsor]

There you go again Max, wasting oxygen.