WORKHORSE CUSTOM CHASSIS SERVICE BULLETIN - 60701-T

[Ultra RV Products]

Workhorse will not void your warranty because you have UltraPower installed.
They will void your warranty if you have a failure and they can determine beyond a reasonable doubt that UltraPower caused a failure.Then UltraPower has product liability insurance to cover such failure's.I might also add that we have ZERO engine failure's due to UltraPower.We also have coach's out there with over 30,000 miles with UltraPower program's.

On a side note if your frame rails have been altered by the body builder,50-60% have been,Your warranty for vibration's,U-joint's,Driveline's etc. can be DENIED!

Right Dennis!

[campercat]

The question I have is, does Workhorse actually dyno tune their ecm's with a body on it or do they just use a pickup truck ecm...since GM doesn't build motorhome chassis, (they only provide just the engine and electronics) what do they base their calibrations on?

[campercat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Its the flip of the cards whether or not you have any type of engine problems, especially with an aftermarket ECM. Try going in to Workhorse to have some engine warrantee work done with a different ECM installed, and see how fast you will be denied.

How much risk do people want to take and lose your 100,000 mile warrantee....

Read the Service Bulletin. It's plain as day. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess it's a flip of the card's on any purchase you make, including your motorhome...what gives you some peace of mind is that the manufacturer provides a warranty. If Brazel's has product liability as they say, what difference does it make as to who covers a failure as long as it's covered? And what part of the warranty do they void? Does it mean that if my water pump fails during the warranty it won't be covered if I have an ultrapower? I believe that Brazel's are a reputable company just as Workhorse is, obviously they're not as big but from the threads I've read their reputation is very important to them...unless you assume they don't know what they are doing and are out to make a quick buck. When I think about it...isn't the body an aftermarket part too...hummmm

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by campercat:
The question I have is, does Workhorse actually dyno tune their ecm's with a body on it or do they just use a pickup truck ecm...since GM doesn't build motorhome chassis, (they only provide just the engine and electronics) what do they base their calibrations on? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>campercat, Now here's a question that I have been waiting for.

At the beginning of the new model year GM, Allison and the engineers from WCC all get together in Union City and develop the calibration file for that model year. Once they all sign off on it, they begin to build the next model year's chassis.

To answer your question, No they do not use a pickup truck. By the way, the 8.1L engine was developed for the Medium Duty truck line like the Kodiak so it's a heavy duty engine and not a pickup truck engine like the other camp features in their motorhome chassis.

Rest assured that the 8.1L engine is well suited to powering up to a 26,000 GVW RV chassis with authority.

[dieselclacker]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LeeB:
For those of us in California...I still wonder if CARB is going to except the UP and the CAI... Upgrades

I am out of warrenty so to me it makes no differance what GM says..... Just what the CARB says </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lee, neither the Ultrapower modification to the ECM nor the air intake system modification is legal under California law. Parts must be certified by CARB and have a CARB number issued for that part. This is true for all emission related parts sold for use in California.

Dieselclacker

[Geechee]

dieselclacker,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Lee, neither the Ultrapower modification to the ECM nor the air intake system modification is legal under California law. Parts must be certified by CARB and have a CARB number issued for that part. This is true for all emission related parts sold for use in California. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

DC you are right on!!!!

That's why I raised the question of the UltraPower ECM updates having received CARB and EPA certification back in the first UltraPower Evaluation thread. The response was it had been approved for CARB, then awhile later it changed to 'it was in progress of being'. I don't think many MH'ers have any idea what is involved in receiving EPA and CARB certification. It is very, very expensive process and it fits more into a GM research budget than that of most small businesses.

Back in the old days there was a means to increase the power of an diesel engine by a process refereed to as turning up the rack of the injection pump. I can assure that a number of truckers found their warranty claims ($10 of thousands of dollars per claim) denied when we found the original settings had been changed. I guess I should have padded my retirement by selling replacement anti tamper seal sets at truck stops.

[campercat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Geechee:
dieselclacker,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Lee, neither the Ultrapower modification to the ECM nor the air intake system modification is legal under California law. Parts must be certified by CARB and have a CARB number issued for that part. This is true for all emission related parts sold for use in California. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

DC you are right on!!!!

That's why I raised the question of the UltraPower ECM updates having received CARB and EPA certification back in the first UltraPower Evaluation thread. The response was it had been approved for CARB, then awhile later it changed to 'it was in progress of being'. I don't think many MH'ers have any idea what is involved in receiving EPA and CARB certification. It is very, very expensive process and it fits more into a GM research budget than that of most small businesses.

Back in the old days there was a means to increase the power of an diesel engine by a process refereed to as turning up the rack of the injection pump. I can assure that a number of truckers found their warranty claims ($10 of thousands of dollars per claim) denied when we found the original settings had been changed. I guess I should have padded my retirement by selling replacement anti tamper seal sets at truck stops. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe Brazel's should consider discontinuing their ultrapower...BTW, why hasn't there been much discussing against using banks products, it's almost like Brazel's seems to be singled out here, is that because they are a small business?

[Geechee]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">why hasn't there been much discussing against using banks products, it's almost like Brazel's seems to be singled out here, is that because they are a small business? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I only can speak for myself, but I am not aware of a thread on this site promoting the Banks products to the exclusion of others. When one sees 'Ultrapower Evaluation' I and II (and none titled 'Banks Evaluation') you have to expect an inquisitive mind to want to find out if all the T's are crossed and i's dotted before making a decision one way or the other. In this case it seemed as I posed some question based on my background, at least IMHO, that there are a number of T's to be crossed and i' to be dotted. Then as more and more posters seemed to question my motives, I guess I took offense. I can't just accept the revival style witnessing as good enough to justify purchasing any product. I require hard documentation. The bulletins released this week by GM and WCC crossed a number of T's for me. Perhaps to my determent, I just never have been one to follow the herd wherever it is heading.

[Ultra RV Products]

Geechee,

See my other post & don't buy our stuff.But please keep up the post's my phone is ringing off the hook.My UPS bill will be pretty large for all the free shipping I'm offing as long as they mention Geechee or FrontrangeRVer's name's when they call.You guy's rock!

[campercat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Geechee:
I only can speak for myself, but I am not aware of a thread on this site promoting the Banks products to the exclusion of others. When one sees 'Ultrapower Evaluation' I and II (and none titled 'Banks Evaluation') </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just want to understand correctly, is this site owned by ultrapower or can any product be talked about? Is it driven by those that post to these threads or are all other products edited out unless they pay a fee to be mentioned? Can anybody go into the "snake oil" business here and sell their wares or do they have to be qualified as a solid business with a solid product? From what I've read in previous posts it appears to me that the Brazel boys have been tested by fire again and again...only to still keep coming back, like the energizer "bunny". Maybe your efforts will finally make them go away!

[Bob (WA0MQE)]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">posted by Geechee: , but I am not aware of a thread on this site promoting the Banks products to the exclusion of others. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your statement is not true Geechee, I've read posts on this forum as well as a couple other RV related forums that stated Banks exhaust was better then Gibson exhaust, as well as the other way around. This of course is not "Promoting" it's just folk's opinions. It's also just Brazel's opinion their's is a good product. One of the other companies that offered an ECM re-tune also made statements on this forum about how good theirs was, as well as being cheaper.

Keep in mind that Brazels didn't start their business by utilizing this forum, although no doubt the forum has probably helped their business, just like it's helped other business' regarding their product. In any case, the Ultrapower question came up by we forum users and questions were asked about the Ultrapower/CAI system amongst each other long before Mike Bronzini started typing replys here.

[campercat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brazels RV Performance:
Geechee,

See my other post & don't buy our stuff.But please keep up the post's my phone is ringing off the hook.My UPS bill will be pretty large for all the free shipping I'm offing as long as they mention Geechee or FrontrangeRVer's name's when they call.You guy's rock! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

great.....now look what's happened...you've created a monster!

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by campercat: </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Any product can be talked about and I don't know where you are going with this post. The current subject is the Service Bulletin and the effects thereof and that is exactly what is being discussed here. Ultrapower does not own this site however they and other sponsors make it possible for all of us to exchange concepts and opinions 24/7-365.

PS: I don't see anybody picking on Camping World, they do all types of chassis upgrades including Banks.

The scope of this issue is much larger than just 1 aftermarket company.

[rvten]

Glad I spent all my extra $$ on beer and my wife, rather than upgrading my W-20, Allison and Chevy 8.1.

My MH runs fine right out of the box. SO why screw with it.