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Old 10-02-2019, 07:18 AM   #15
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fuel pressure test

I did the fuel pressure test while driving and while at idle. Had WOT while driving up a hill. My pressure readings were good.

The engine problem does not happen until I have been driving for at least an hour, while I'm traveling to my next stop. I can only do the fuel pressure test while driving around town, not on the highway, so I can't really see what the fuel pressure is doing when the engine finally has it's issue.

When the engine has it's issue, it acts more like limp home mode than a loss of power on acceleration only. If I continue driving, my speed gets "restricted" more and more until I finally stop and restart. Then it's back to normal.

It occurred to me that the previous owner was having this issue. He replaced the fuel pump right before I bought it. The problem continued, so I replaced other parts. I think other engine issues have masked the core problem too, because I've had issues like a leaking transmission pan and an EGR issue that I have fixed. Yet, the engine still has this problem.
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:42 AM   #16
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Then I would replace the Black ICM.
Make sure the one you get is Black in color as the 1994 and newer chassis is not wired for the Gray one.
The Black remote mounted ICM very seldom goes bad but it sounds like it may be the problem if it is very warm out.


It that does not fix it then I would change out the PIP sensor.
And if not that I guess the next item would be the PCM.
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:40 PM   #17
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I have seen this very same problem on other gas powered units. It ended up being dirt & crud in the fuel tank collecting on the sock attached to the fuel pump. With engine off the dirt & crud fall off the sock. After driving awhile the crud builds up on the sock and restricts fuel flow. Shut engine off for a couple of minutes and the crud falls off.
Follow Bill's great advice to the very end. Then if all else fails, check out the tank.
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:27 AM   #18
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A vacuum leak!

I think I have been chasing different problems over the past year that have generated the same error codes. i have been testing as I have gone along, fixed issues, and chased new issues, but I haven't retested everything each time. When I ran the datastream, I researched the meaning off the high fuel values at idle that dropped to typical values at higher RPMs. Other sites said it may indicate a vacuum leak, so I inspected all my vacuum connections. I found a hose clamp that had become loose at some point. It was on my crankcase breather hose. The hose was loose and had some oil around the hose. I replaced the hose clamp, disconnected the battery for 45 minutes, reconnected, and ran the datastream test again. The values dramatically improved, but I still need to do a test drive. I also tested for additional leaks using carb cleaner. I replaced a couple fittings that looked like they might have an issue in the future. I didn't find anything else. Hoping for the best!
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Old 10-04-2019, 07:58 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semcha View Post
Other sites said it may indicate a vacuum leak, so I inspected all my vacuum connections. I found a hose clamp that had become loose at some point. It was on my crankcase breather hose. The hose was loose and had some oil around the hose. I replaced the hose clamp, disconnected the battery for 45 minutes, reconnected, and ran the datastream test again. The values dramatically improved, but I still need to do a test drive. I also tested for additional leaks using carb cleaner. I replaced a couple fittings that looked like they might have an issue in the future.

While it;s good to eliminate vacuum leaks, this is NOT the cause of your problem.


You were given this suggestion by some well meaning individual who assumed that your fuel injection system used the conventional (by today's standards) MAF, or Mass Air Flow sensor. If a MAF system has a vacuum leak, then the leaking air gets into the intake without passing through the airflow sensor, and so can be labelled as "unmetered air". The PCM injects the correct amount of fuel for only the metered air, but the engine gets both, so runs too lean.


You have a MAP or Manifold Absolute Pressure system, in which the pressure in the intake is measured, and a calculation is made from this to determine the mass flow rate of air entering the engine. If you have an air leak in a MAP system, then the leaking air raises the pressure in the intake, and that pressure is passed to the PCM which computes the correct amount of air and the correct amount of fuel.



Unmetered air is a real concern in MAF systems, but not at all in MAP systems.


If the physics doesn't convince you, you can create a large air leak by pulling the PCV hose of the back of the throttle body. That will give you a 1/4" hole directly into the intake. the engine will run just fine, make good power and do everything its supposed to EXCEPT that the idle speed will not go below about 1100rpm.



Quote:
Originally Posted by semcha View Post
I didn't find anything else. Hoping for the best!

I'm afraid that hoping for the best is all you're doing here. You have done an inadequate fuel pressure test, and you have admitted that you have not measure fuel pressure when your problem happens.


Like many others including our wise and gentlemanly sage, Subford, I believe your problem will turn out to be the fuel pump. he is too much of a gentlemen to say you are in denial about this; I am not.


You have chosen to believe that because the previous owner replaced the fuel pump, it must be good. However you can search this forum and find posts from people who had to do 2 fuel pump changes before they got one to work for more than week or so. And i often find myself reminding people that anyone selling a used anything has likely not used it much for a while, has probably skimped on the maintenance, and has only fitted the minimum cheapest parts to make it appear fit to be sold.


In addition, you are probably in denial because changing a fuel pump is a horrible job, and there is risk of damage, and apparently no guarantee of success. I understand all this; I had to change my own fuel pump in 28 degrees after i removed 55 gallons from the tank.


Be all that as it may, the fact remains that you seem to be fortunate enough to be able to reproduce this power loss, and so what you should do is the simple, cheap fuel pressure test while driving, only you need to do it all the time.


You say this can't be done, but I don't see why not. Contrast the time and money spent on rigging up a gauge where you can see it, with all the cost and aggravation of hanging out perfectly good parts.


1 You can drill a hole in your doghouse cover for the pressure hose to allow the gauge to be placed where you can see it while driving. After all is fixed, you can plug the hole, or repair the hole in the fiberglass doghouse cover.


2 You can get a longer hose and lead it forwards, over the radiator, out through the grille and support the gauge on the outside of the windshield.


3 You can get a
AUTO METER 2663 Z-Series Electric Fuel Pressure Gauge

$220 from amazon. how much have you spent already on diagnostic tools and parts you didn't really need?


And btw, did you know that if you pivot your dashboard up, then to the right of the ford instrument panel, Winnebago has provided two holes for this size of gauge. All you have to do is cut out the plastic part of the dashboard over the home in the metal. Fit it and leave it there. And put a transmission temp gauge in the other hole while you're at it


So, yes, changing fuel pumps is no fun. But the test is easy. And although the problem is intermittent now, it will eventually fail, and that will probably mean a towing bill.


So don't be in denial.


Michael
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Old 10-04-2019, 06:44 PM   #20
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172 code, again

Well, same problem. Damn. So, back to the fuel test. Mpaton is correct. I have no desire to deal with replacing the fuel pump. But, that might be where I am now. Considering I did the fuel pressure test last spring, and I'm just no longer sure if I'm chasing the same problem the previous owner had, or if I have a new problem that just manifests in a similar way, I am going to look at the fuel supply again.

I looked at the permanent fuel pressure gauge on Amazon. It looks like I need an adapter for the fuel pressure rail. Anyone know what that is for the 1994?

Also, if it comes to it, how do you clean fuel sludge out of a fuel tank?

Sean
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Old 10-04-2019, 07:20 PM   #21
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I went a little overboard when I installed mine and did not use the fuel test point.
Here is what I did:










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Old 10-04-2019, 07:56 PM   #22
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Here's the link to the Autometer site for that gauge. https://www.autometer.com/2-fuel-pre...-fse-4431.html


Towards the bottom, there are 2 adapters listed as being for the Ford fuel rail. If you download the instructions, it suggests that adapter 3280 is the one to use.


btw, a quick search shows electric gauges down to around $47. The electric gauge is viewed as much safer, as it keeps the fuel pipe out of the passenger compartment.


The last time I had to clean out a gas tank I used washed pea gravel. The shaking was the hard part, and I was only cleaning a 15 gallon tank.. Luckily the F-53 fuel tank has a good large hole in the top for getting the gravel out again. You may be lucky and not find any sludge; I was surprised not to find any in my F-53 tank.


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Old 10-05-2019, 03:25 AM   #23
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Fuel pump part number

I've been looking at fuel pump replacements. Looks like Ford made a new fuel pump and it needs an adapter. What part number should I use for the pump and adapter? Did y'all replace all breather hoses too?
Thanks for all the help.

Sean
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Old 10-05-2019, 04:56 AM   #24
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Part numbers

Looks like
Motorcraft PFS48 Sender and Pump Assembly and
Motorcraft WT56820 Wiring Assembly.

Is that right?

Sean
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Old 10-05-2019, 06:04 AM   #25
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Note that if the PO replaced the fuel pump with a Ford pump you may already have the adapter.





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Old 10-05-2019, 06:49 AM   #26
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wire harness

I recall he said he didn't replace the entire unit. He replaced the pump portion only. Is this adapter f7pu-9A213-ca? I can't find it online. Is it the same as https://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts...oCGjMQAvD_BwE?
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Old 10-05-2019, 07:22 AM   #27
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It looks the same as the F7PZ-9A213-CA.
Note the number has a "Z" and not an "U".



See attached TSB PDF.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 97-23-09.pdf (3.3 KB, 12 views)
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Old 10-05-2019, 01:00 PM   #28
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Motorcraft cross reference

Is there a Motorcraft cross reference for F7PZ-9A213-BB? It looks like Motorcraft® WT56820 would be right.
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