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07-23-2022, 10:36 PM
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#169
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: FT on the Road
Posts: 3,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garlic_Rudy
Isn’t this a ford crate engine ?
If so it should have a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty
Who is the 3rd party consultant? They should Be on the line with ford.
If there was a mechanical timing issue it should be throwing codes indicating as such.
Did they remove the cat and drive it ? No exhaust flow means low manifold vacuum.
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Yes it’s a Ford reman engine from ford.
Sure it’s under warranty. Their option fix or replace as I understand it.
Shop is doing their due diligence to make sure they didn’t make a mistake as I understand it. Once they have confirmed everything is proper then they can go to Ford as I understand it.
No codes and it is off day by one link in timing it may not as I understand it.
Yes the cat was removed from the equation and still has a problem as I noted in a prior post.
If my understanding of any of the above is wrong please let me know. I am only repeating what I’m told and not an expert. I am in a difficult if not an impossible situation.
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07-23-2022, 11:04 PM
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#170
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Member
Join Date: May 2022
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 81
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Probably around 50 years ago when I was checking valve timing I had the valve covers off, spark plugs out and straws in the spark plug holes. With a socket wrench fitted to the bolt on the front of the crank shaft that holds on the pulley, on could slowly rotate the crank shaft and watch the straws going up and down while observing valve action. It was easy to watch intake, then exhaust valve position on both cylinder banks as each cylinder came up to top dead center. Valve timing should be identical on both banks of cylinders. Since I have not worked on engines for a very long time, I don't know but maybe sensors and codes can do that valve timing assessment easier and more accurately. Let me know.
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07-24-2022, 04:51 AM
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#171
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: FT on the Road
Posts: 3,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech Writer
Probably around 50 years ago when I was checking valve timing I had the valve covers off, spark plugs out and straws in the spark plug holes. With a socket wrench fitted to the bolt on the front of the crank shaft that holds on the pulley, on could slowly rotate the crank shaft and watch the straws going up and down while observing valve action. It was easy to watch intake, then exhaust valve position on both cylinder banks as each cylinder came up to top dead center. Valve timing should be identical on both banks of cylinders. Since I have not worked on engines for a very long time, I don't know but maybe sensors and codes can do that valve timing assessment easier and more accurately. Let me know.
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That may be part of the diagnosis on Monday they plan to do. I recall them saying something to do after the valve. Covers come off and that both banks should be identical.
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07-24-2022, 06:07 AM
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#172
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Meshoppen, PA
Posts: 1,998
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Did it run properly at ALL since it was installed or is this from the moment you drove it..
The throaty sound is a concern..
IMO 180 degrees out of time. it will run but on exhaust top dead center, computer adjusts but no power or vaccum..
Or some wiring got crossed ..
I just had a BMW that would not rev out but idled and pulled out..
Bank 1 and Bank 2 fuel harness reversed, dang same plugs.. some one else did valve cover.. then thru thousands into sensors, coils, plugs, etc,, sat for months.. took the third set of eyes and owning the same car to see wires did not lay in holder the same and then colors of wires.. ding ding.. hero moment..
goodluck
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07-24-2022, 06:32 AM
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#173
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: FT on the Road
Posts: 3,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sibe
Did it run properly at ALL since it was installed or is this from the moment you drove it..
The throaty sound is a concern..
IMO 180 degrees out of time. it will run but on exhaust top dead center, computer adjusts but no power or vaccum..
Or some wiring got crossed ..
I just had a BMW that would not rev out but idled and pulled out..
Bank 1 and Bank 2 fuel harness reversed, dang same plugs.. some one else did valve cover.. then thru thousands into sensors, coils, plugs, etc,, sat for months.. took the third set of eyes and owning the same car to see wires did not lay in holder the same and then colors of wires.. ding ding.. hero moment..
goodluck
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Hasn't run right since the install.
I can't see how wires can get crossed unless you are saying the wires coming from the engine to the chassis harness connector are installed by the manufacturer incorrectly?
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07-24-2022, 07:14 AM
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#174
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Town of Beloit
Posts: 363
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codes?
Any fault codes , did they do an engine running test? Try to relearn crank trigger ? Just a thought
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2016 Tiffin 34PA, 2018 Ford Edge toad, Blue OX rear track bar, Cheap handling fix, Konis, Super Steer retired Ford tech/service manager, No Worry, No Hurry. "Livin The Dream"
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07-24-2022, 11:00 AM
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#175
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Member
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 60
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This was a long block from Ford, correct? So the heads and the valve chains and valve timing was all set by the rebuilder, not the shop?
Thats crazy they would put it together wrong, but I guess it could happen.
x2 on a vacuum test with an gauge, but nobody knows how to read those anymore...
Leak down test could give a clue if that chain is off, but the compression test should have shown the same issue.
Have they double checked the injector and coil pack wires to make sure two are not swapped? I don't know if the wiring will allow that, but could be your issue.
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Ray.
2011 Fleetwood Terra 34DS
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07-25-2022, 05:46 AM
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#176
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: FT on the Road
Posts: 3,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMBO34PA
Any fault codes , did they do an engine running test? Try to relearn crank trigger ? Just a thought
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Relearn crank trigger? Wouldn't there be a code thrown if this was off? No codes on this engine. Not sure what a engine running test. They have done hours of tests with engine running and their Snap on scanner attached including me driving and tech reviewing live results.
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07-25-2022, 05:52 AM
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#177
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: FT on the Road
Posts: 3,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretaco
This was a long block from Ford, correct? So the heads and the valve chains and valve timing was all set by the rebuilder, not the shop?
Thats crazy they would put it together wrong, but I guess it could happen.
x2 on a vacuum test with an gauge, but nobody knows how to read those anymore...
Leak down test could give a clue if that chain is off, but the compression test should have shown the same issue.
Have they double checked the injector and coil pack wires to make sure two are not swapped? I don't know if the wiring will allow that, but could be your issue.
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Yes, crate reman engine directly from Ford. Shop did nothing to the engine except install it.
Compression tests (done 2 separate times) came in generally fine. I think avg 175 on one side 180 on the other.
There is a picture earlier in the thread. I don't think the wiring harness can be connected incorrectly but take a look. I don't know what to look for.
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07-25-2022, 06:06 AM
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#178
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Safety Harbor, FL
Posts: 2,502
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Wonder if it has the newer 320hp tune and there for only revs to 4200 rpm rather than closer to 5000 on the old one and the 5 speed isn't shifting properly to allow maximum power.
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2022 Thor Palazzo 33.5
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Toad - Readybrute Elite Towbar
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07-25-2022, 06:15 AM
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#179
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: FT on the Road
Posts: 3,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jharrell
Wonder if it has the newer 320hp tune and there for only revs to 4200 rpm rather than closer to 5000 on the old one and the 5 speed isn't shifting properly to allow maximum power.
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No tune was needed for this engine. I asked numerous times as yes it is a newer engine than my '15. Was told numerous times no tune needed. They even called Ford to confirm.
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07-25-2022, 06:27 AM
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#180
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Safety Harbor, FL
Posts: 2,502
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Just not sure what would happen if you connect a 320hp 2016+ engine to a 2015 5 speed transmission, the shift points will be all wrong, perhaps the TCU can learn to shift at the new lower max rpm properly.
Maybe the reman engine has the 365hp tune even though its newer engine, would be interesting to know.
Good luck, hope they diagnose properly today and it's something simple.
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2022 Thor Palazzo 33.5
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Toad - Readybrute Elite Towbar
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07-25-2022, 06:34 AM
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#181
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: FT on the Road
Posts: 3,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jharrell
Just not sure what would happen if you connect a 320hp 2016+ engine to a 2015 5 speed transmission, the shift points will be all wrong, perhaps the TCU can learn to shift at the new lower max rpm properly.
Maybe the reman engine has the 365hp tune even though its newer engine, would be interesting to know.
Good luck, hope they diagnose properly today and it's something simple.
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I asked. From what I am told it is mechanically the same engine. The only difference is the tune for the engine/trans.
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07-25-2022, 03:39 PM
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#182
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: FT on the Road
Posts: 3,832
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Can't catch a break with this damned V10 engine
Just can't catch a break.
Tests today revealed cylinder 6 valves are not seating properly. Why this couldn't be found via a compression test last week I just don't know.
The shop is now on the phone with Ford to determine next steps.
1) Get an "emergency" engine sent out - if even available.
2) take this one out, send it back and have Ford fix it.
3) something else
I've advised the shop that this is going to cost me thousands of more dollars in hotel stays. I can't stay in the RV without an engine (slides won't go out and jacks won't go down).
So Ford has limitations in their warranty against incidental or consequential damages. Some states limit this limitations from my research. As I read the law, Nebraska has such exclusion of limitation.
Reaching out for some help in this area. Are there any resources I can get help with to fight Ford on this? Am I even understanding this correctly?
NE law: https://nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/ucc.php?code=2-715
Ford warranty: https://parts.ford.com/.../PartsLimi...ty_08_2020.pdf
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