2015 F53 Chassis V10 self destructs

[Rob_M]

Originally Posted by Americanrascal

Yippee! We are headed to Montgomery AL tomorrow to pick up our motorhome. Well I was pleasantly surprised today when the phone rang and the service tech at the Ford Truck Service center at Stivers in Montgomery came on the line and said I could come pick my rig up it was fixed!!!! No 4 month wait for a new engine, no major tear down expense, the rig had been repaired and put back together. They and other mechanics had really thought the engine was shot and a new one was needed. Seems Good Sam's (service contract) insistence on a tear down to the point of failure was the right call and saved everyone a bunch of time and $$$$ with a new engine not being necessary .Turns out after beginning the tear down they found the exhaust valve spring had broken on number 10 cyl. giving the screwy compression reading because of a non functioning exhaust valve. $7.00 part and a whole bunch of labor cost and I am one happy and lucky cowboy. I am spending the night listening to Gene Autry sing : "I'm Back in the Saddle Again!!!!".. I think I'll sing along with him.

Very lucky indeed. A few more miles and that valve likely would have dropped and destroyed the engine.

[jaydee325]

Originally Posted by Americanrascal

Yippee! We are headed to Montgomery AL tomorrow to pick up our motorhome. Well I was pleasantly surprised today when the phone rang and the service tech at the Ford Truck Service center at Stivers in Montgomery came on the line and said I could come pick my rig up it was fixed!!!! No 4 month wait for a new engine, no major tear down expense, the rig had been repaired and put back together. They and other mechanics had really thought the engine was shot and a new one was needed. Seems Good Sam's (service contract) insistence on a tear down to the point of failure was the right call and saved everyone a bunch of time and $$$$ with a new engine not being necessary .Turns out after beginning the tear down they found the exhaust valve spring had broken on number 10 cyl. giving the screwy compression reading because of a non functioning exhaust valve. $7.00 part and a whole bunch of labor cost and I am one happy and lucky cowboy. I am spending the night listening to Gene Autry sing : "I'm Back in the Saddle Again!!!!".. I think I'll sing along with him.

I'm confused. In your post above you said the #10 was bore scoped and the cylinder was heavily damaged. Did the repair shop lie to you? If that is the case, that must be why Good Sam requires a tear down because they have run into this kind of thing before (probably many times!)

[Americanrascal]

The cylinder comment came from the shop. It is a bit of an enigma for me. You know how it goes- I get the info 3rd hand. First the mechanic tells the service rep what he's found. The service rep tells the insurance folks what the mechanic sees. How bad it was or was it clearly subjective at that point. Finally I get the information.

Could they have wanted to make it sound bad to justify to me and to insurance a new engine? Maybe- maybe not. I knew from the beginning they made it clear to me that their preference is pretty much always an engine change rather than a failed part repair. It definitely give's them more security and peace of mind to avoid further liability from missing something or having to deal with the same rig/engine over and over. Regardless, Good Sams made the right call-- I hope LOL.

When I pick the rig up today I definitely intend to ask for more clarity about the cylinder I want to understand what they observed and reported.

At 63000 miles the cylinder may not be perfect. How scoured or if it was I'll never know unless I bore scope it myself (which by the way is on my to do list as I want to see for myself). I think the stuck valve eliminating compression may have driven them to think it may have been rings? That's my thinking that there was far less cylinder damage than was actually visible????. Its clear to me the piston head was not damaged and now with the valve working again compression is fine.

[D Gardiner]

First, congratulations the shop found the actual reason for the engine failure, and that the issue was small. I too would be singing 'Back in the saddle again'.

As to playing telephone. You are correct, getting the mechanic first hand is always the best. After the news travels between 2-3 people usually the story gets bigger. Kind of like those fishing stories.

Now,

Engine issues, engine failures, most dealerships today generally go to an engine replacement, or transmission replacement for liability issues. Same goes for mis-fueling vehicles. They generally want to replace everything from the fuel tank to the injectors. Guess that's the only way to avoid law suits, and possible lemon-law litigation.

And, just like going to the doctor, always get a second opinion. Case in point.

-My wife and I had a co-worker with a mid-2000s BMW 3-series. The car was misfiring on a few cylinders. Instead of diagnosing the issue, the dealer recommended replacing the engine, for $8,000
I told him to get a second opinion. He towed the car it to another shop. Long story short, that shop found a couple bad ignition coils. $400 dollars later he had 6 new coils, with some labor and diagnostic time.

-Another guy, also with a BMW (could easily have been Ford, GM, Lexus etc.) had an engine misfire, with rapid engine overheating. The temp. gauge went into the red within 3-miles of driving. Dealer recommended an engine replacement for about $12,000. He took his car home, performed a compression check,...all was good. Filled up the coolant and bleed the system numerous times,...still overheating.
Finally he ordered a CO2 detection kit. https://www.amazon.com/Block-Tester-...a-570352767565
It confirmed that exhaust was getting into the cooling system. He towed his car to another shop. They pulled the engine, tore it down and found a bad head gasket. Machine shop milled the head, ordered the matching head gasket, and inside of 2-weeks the engine was back in, and the car was running. Total $5,500.

Always get a second opinion. Make a relationship with a good mechanic. If they go to a new shop, follow that mechanic. It's like having a good doctor, or contractor, plumber or electrician.

Again, congratulations the shop found the actual problem, and got it fixed.

[bigb56]

Originally Posted by D Gardiner

Always get a second opinion.

While I agree this is a good idea it is not always possible in today's world, it's hard to just find anyone who will do it. Case in point, the OP could not find anyone and had to have it towed 90 miles. Even in the contracting world it's hard to just get someone to show up or even return your call, and most people don't get multiple estimates any more, they just give the job to whoever they can get to do it. And since the work is so plentiful due to lack of skilled workers, the ones that do it can pretty much call the shots.
When I had my contracting business the biggest concern most clients had was "when can you start?" instead of "how much?".

[Mark_K5LXP]

Thing about repairs is it's not their money the mechanics are spending. As a mechanic why would I go through the time and trouble to troubleshoot and repair something when I can just replace it? That's doing more work to save someone else some money - not a lot of incentive for that. Plus there's the issue of owning the problem - if they try and fix it and fail, then it's all downhill in terms of time and costs eaten to try and resolve the problem. R&R solves a lot of problems and it's no surprise it's hard to find anyone that will fix anything.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

[RayChez1]

It is true that it is easier to R&R an engine then to tear it down to replace a head gasket or a valve job, but the mechanic where they tow your vehicle should not lie to a person. I have a Cadillac that the temperature showed it was getting hot so I pulled over right away and called a tow truck to take it to the Cadillac dealer. Right away they told me the engine had to be replaced at eleven thousand dollars. I could not believe that an engine could be damaged to such extent that quick. I can see if I had kept on driving it where the heads would warp, but not the way I had handled the situation pulling over and turning the engine down right away. So I had the car towed to a mechanic shop that had done lots of work for me before and done a good job. He checked it out and told me that the engine was fine all it needed was a small hose that had busted going from the over flow reservoir to I believe he said the radiator, but it might have been somewhere else on the engine. He replaced the hose for a few hundred dollars and my car up to date is running with the same engine that the dealer wanted to replace for $11,000.00

[Tech Writer]

I was suffering along with Computer Guy and the V-10 engine problem. What a relief that the problem was found. However, since that engine had been a factory rebuild, it is unsettling that a valve spring had broken. There must have been a partial fracture during manufacturing of the spring or an inconsistency in the metallurgy. I heard of a fellow who felt a pulsing when braking. The shop pulled the drums, saw nothing obviously wrong but turned the drums anyway. One of them was causing a thump in the lathe. Upon examination it was found that a ball bearing had not melted when the steel (or would it have been cast iron?) did not melt. Obviously, the drum had to be replaced.

As for repairing things, about 1945 my dad bought a cement mixer and a friend gave him an inoperative electric motor about ten or thereabouts inched in diameter. dad and I drove down from our hillside home in Burbank, California, to a motor repair and rewinding shop. He wound and installed a new field coil. How long has it been since you have seen that kind of business, or even motors that were capable of being repaired?

A number of years back I repaired television sets for a hobby. Vacuum tubes, resistors, capacitors, various types of coils and rf transformers, and service data for every make and model was available. Now, because of the way they are built with tiny components with soldered connections impossibly close together, it is impossible to repair a TV. However, generally speaking, they operate for a very much longer time, don't have troublesome adjustments, and have a far superior picture.

[Psneeld]

Originally Posted by Tech Writer

I was suffering along with Computer Guy and the V-10 engine problem. What a relief that the problem was found. However, since that engine had been a factory rebuild, it is unsettling that a valve spring had broken. There must have been a partial fracture during manufacturing of the spring or an inconsistency in the metallurgy. I heard of a fellow who felt a pulsing when braking. The shop pulled the drums, saw nothing obviously wrong but turned the drums anyway. One of them was causing a thump in the lathe. Upon examination it was found that a ball bearing had not melted when the steel (or would it have been cast iron?) did not melt. Obviously, the drum had to be replaced.

As for repairing things, about 1945 my dad bought a cement mixer and a friend gave him an inoperative electric motor about ten or thereabouts inched in diameter. dad and I drove down from our hillside home in Burbank, California, to a motor repair and rewinding shop. He wound and installed a new field coil. How long has it been since you have seen that kind of business, or even motors that were capable of being repaired?

A number of years back I repaired television sets for a hobby. Vacuum tubes, resistors, capacitors, various types of coils and rf transformers, and service data for every make and model was available. Now, because of the way they are built with tiny components with soldered connections impossibly close together, it is impossible to repair a TV. However, generally speaking, they operate for a very much longer time, don't have troublesome adjustments, and have a far superior picture.

Motors and generators, alternators, starters are still rebuilt/rewound all the time. Just have to find the shops.

Motors and electronics are still light years apart till you get into the new drive/propulsion motors.

[HingedThink]

Mine is still in the shop almost 7 months later. Figure it’s going to cost $18k. I paid $7200 plus $600 shipping for the reman engine. They are $9500 now. Scumbags from LA Engine still haven’t refunded my core charge.

[computerguy]

Most will not believe this. I feel like I am stuck in this nightmare and it will not let me out.

May the valve broke and started this thread and a chain reaction.

July/Aug the engine was replaced inly to be found defective - bad timing chain or timing chain install. Don’t know don’t care. Another month to get another engine. Installed and THOUGHT all was well. 2k or so miles I started getting misfire codes again.

Panic struck me. I first bought coil packs to see it that was my issue. Not. Found a helpful soul to help a stranger far from home to look at it (I’ve said it before, in this thread and elsewhere,it’s a lot harder to find someone to work on V10 in a motorhome than anyone would ever imagine). He found the gap closed on cylinder 8 see pic. He simply regapped it and put a load on the engine. Then the same code on cyl 7.

Same problem. See pic. Regapped and replaced. The thing here not realized ( and I can’t fault someone who didn’t even charge me to look at something and try and fix it on a Friday afternoon near the beaches in Delaware) and look at both pics and see if you see the problem.

I went on my way with a lump in my throat knowing this was not diagnosed and just a bandage to help me on my way. 100 miles later and same issue. This time cyl 3. I limped to a Ford dealer that gave me a super hard time to work on it. But I was stuck at this point. Engine was in limp mode. After a call directly from Ford from my preexisting case they reluctantly looked at it. Same thing found, gap closed, this time actually welded shut. They replaced the plug for $100 and said we can’t work on these and sent me on my way. Made it to Myrtle Beach without further incident, sort of. It was running but I’d hear a miss every so often and it lacked power over 3k rpm.

The large Ford dealer in MB originally said they would look at it. An appt was made for 3 weeks out. The day before I am scheduled to bring it in - they say they CANNOT work on it. My mental health is now very low.

I find the local Napa dealer would look at it. If you recall, a Napa dealer did the original repair in Nebraska. I can’t say enough for these guys. They have a small space and no real way to help a 35’ motorhome but they said bring it in. They find multiple cylinders scored but did not find the original cause because they could not get cycl 8 coil pack off. They say I need a new engine and further diagnosis by them is not necessary. Discussion with Ford and they find a dealer who can/will work on it. It’s another 3 weeks out.

I find a dealer in Florida, where I’m trying to get to, is receptive to my pleas for help. I decide to chance it and drive straight thru. It made it but again; not running well.

A few weeks at the dealer and root cause is found. It’s now December. Oh, and yes, the intake was replaced new when the engine was replaced. Also, this was a long block from Ford with everything installed from Ford.

Notice the porcelain missing from cyl 8 plug. No one is saying why it self destructed but it’s no where to be found. I’m told this caused the extensive damage to this engine. Ford agrees to fix/replace the engine under warranty. No timeline for the repair. I am in an apartment trying to get my mental health repaired. Apt rents are petty gosh darned ridiculous. I’m being generous about that too.

Praying this will be the end of this saga.

[Unplanned Tourist]

It looks like wrong spark plugs. Too long, and piston is hitting them.

If you didn't have bad luck, you wouldn't have any luck. Sorry for your troubles.

[randomledder]

Something definitely bashed the plug gap closed, with enough of a beating the porcelain broke and fell off into the cylinder at some point. What is the part number on the plug? I suspect you can see marks on the plug ground strap where the piston was hitting it.

[bigb56]

Originally Posted by Unplanned Tourist

It looks like wrong spark plugs. Too long, and piston is hitting them.

If you didn't have bad luck, you wouldn't have any luck. Sorry for your troubles.

I don't think it would have gone 2,000 miles with the pistons hitting the spark plugs. I think the porcelain broke off and bounced around in the cylinder for a bit, closing the plug gap. Why did the porcelain break? Pre-ignition detonation? Inferior quality spark plugs? (There are plenty of counterfeits out there, just saw a video on that). We'll probably never know.