Community Forums

NXR · 11-06-2019, 02:08 PM

In case anyone is interested. 22,000 lb chassis, 22.5" wheels, 242" wheelbase and 1,200 miles.

In fine print it shows the acceptable range. Interestingly, the Ford dealer told me they had never changed the caster on a motorhome and the ones they had seen recently had more caster than the spec like ours does. I'm OK with that.

We are having fairly constant back-and-forth on the steering wheel even with the Safe-T-Plus stabilizer so I was hoping an alignment might help with that. It's too early to tell but it does seem to have less now. That may be just wishful thinking because based on those numbers a reduction in toe-in should have made it a tad worse, right?

On the plus side, perhaps the decrease in toe in will help my mileage.

I'm not sure what the significance of the handwritten note on the final Total Toe is. I did not notice it until I got home. This link does have some explanation: https://www.hunter.com/Portals/0/Media/995-T-2.pdf

Ray

Nickd · 11-06-2019, 05:07 PM

Taking my 2019 Winnebago/Itasca 31BE (18000lb F53) in for sway bar upgrades and an alignment Friday.

Having them install a SuperSteer auxiliary bar on the back and upgrading the front to a Helliwig 1 3/4".

I already added a SuperSteer rear track bar. Better, but a bit disappointing as I still have uncomfortable amounts of wander. My older coach ('99 WBGO 36C Brave) tracked better without any track bars or mods. Who knew?

Apparently we are fighting the same F53 battle with different boxes up top.

I was going to have them set toe at +.06 and +.06 as I have heard that is best to prevent wander. But yours wandered at +.07 and +.07! pretty much the optimal 1/8" toe in "sweet spot".

I'm laughing now. I think the wander has more to do with the steering box engineering and the excessive rear overhang on all these coaches.

At least the power train is on point. Loving the latest 6 speed and V10 tune.

NXR · 11-06-2019, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickd

I'm laughing now. I think the wander has more to do with the steering box engineering and the excessive rear overhang on all these coaches.

In my case, I wouldn't discount it being the driver.

It's definitely not bad or anything serious, just annoying. We drove a brand new 2019 Vista LX 35F that was far, far worse. That thing was just scary to drive. Not only did it wander it had a LOT of sway.

I did add a rear trac bar that seems to have done nothing except make my wallet lighter.

Replacing the four stock Sachs shocks used by Ford with Koni FSD's made a dramatic, positive difference. In turns an inclinometer showed the sway as measured at the doghouse dropped from 15 to 20 degrees to below ten degrees. The ride on rough roads and especially on bridge joints is far better as well.

Ray

Reacher · 11-07-2019, 04:07 PM

Weigh the coach fully loaded for a trip complete with driver and passengers. My guess would be too much weight in rear overhang area causing light loaded front axle increasing wander steering. It seems a lot of folks throw a lot of $$ on this problem before visiting the scales.

NXR · 11-07-2019, 05:54 PM

It's pretty well balanced. This was with full fuel, full water, two adults, two large dogs and packed up for an extended trip. We normally carry about 400 lbs less water.

Front GAWR is 8,000
Rear GAWR is 15,000
GVWR is 22,000
GCWR is 26,000

I do not have a four-corner weigh, though. The rear overhang is about 12' and the two holding tanks are aft of the rear axle, which were both empty for this weighing.

Ray

davidki · 11-07-2019, 06:39 PM

Am I missing something or am I the only one that is concerned about the weight, with and with out the tow vehicle....

In looking at the numbers... it's 400 - 500 lbs of the max weight.... How the heck does this get so heavy.... even given this is on 22.5" wheels I am not sure I'd feel comfortable with all that weight!

NXR · 11-07-2019, 11:48 PM

No, trust me, you're not the only one.

The CCC sticker says I have a touch over 2,000 lbs available and that should be with full fuel and full water and nothing else.

Subtract out the two adults and two large dogs, about 600 lbs, and it's down to 1,400 available. Subtract out that 400 lb margin and it works out that we added 1,000 lbs of stuff.

We completely unload the coach when it goes to the dealer for maintenance. Plates,silverware, tools, grill, chairs, linen, clothes, everything. Is it a half-ton of stuff? Could be but I would not have guessed that. I could see 500 to 700, though.

The Pet Loader steps weigh 31 lbs. we carry bottled water and that is probably another 100 lbs (need extra for the dogs). The Blackstone griddle and stand are about 50 lbs. Water hoses, 50-amp extension cord, supplemental wood blocks, it all adds up.

I'd be happier if we were a couple of thousand below GVWR but that's what it weighed as delivered.

Ray

davidki · 11-08-2019, 05:25 AM

NXR, well.... I am sure there is a "factory weight" posted in the coach somewhere, the weight it was as it left the factory floor. I was not surprised when our Jayco TT specification on the web showed a ULVW of about 5900 lbs but the factory weight on the sticker as it left was almost 6500 lbs... .so, right there was 600 lbs. You may look for that sticker when you get a chance... Brochures and calculated guess weights on brochures are usually low on everything I read... the 26,000 lb is a Ford Chassis number before they even think of building on it I think.

I can only imagine that weight plays heavily in the handling and performance of these big Motor Homes, Riding down the road at almost max capacity would scare the heck out of me!

It just seems to me that these manufactures could do better in design of the chassis before it hit the factory floor rather than waiting for a customer to drive down the road uncontrollably and then having to go in and spend thousands to try to put a band aid on the situation.... The more I am reading about the handling issues in these new Motor Homes the more it makes me think of keeping our 2013 travel trailer!

I'd say if one can't drive down the road with some sense of control of a 26,000 lb brick I'd start to worry about how I'd feel at the end of a day of driving!

Reacher · 11-08-2019, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidki

NXR, well.... I am sure there is a "factory weight" posted in the coach somewhere, the weight it was as it left the factory floor. I was not surprised when our Jayco TT specification on the web showed a ULVW of about 5900 lbs but the factory weight on the sticker as it left was almost 6500 lbs... .so, right there was 600 lbs. You may look for that sticker when you get a chance... Brochures and calculated guess weights on brochures are usually low on everything I read... the 26,000 lb is a Ford Chassis number before they even think of building on it I think.

I can only imagine that weight plays heavily in the handling and performance of these big Motor Homes, Riding down the road at almost max capacity would scare the heck out of me!

It just seems to me that these manufactures could do better in design of the chassis before it hit the factory floor rather than waiting for a customer to drive down the road uncontrollably and then having to go in and spend thousands to try to put a band aid on the situation.... The more I am reading about the handling issues in these new Motor Homes the more it makes me think of keeping our 2013 travel trailer!

I'd say if one can't drive down the road with some sense of control of a 26,000 lb brick I'd start to worry about how I'd feel at the end of a day of driving!

I agree. Mfgrs. could do much better and use the next size up chassis and longer wheel bases. This would actually allow folks to load something other than TP and marshmallows and have a safer WB to length ratio.

davidki · 11-08-2019, 09:53 AM

Reacher.... Kinda like Baby Diapers.... the 5 lb version does not mean how much you can put in them!

NXR · 11-08-2019, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidki

It just seems to me that these manufactures could do better in design of the chassis before it hit the factory floor rather than waiting for a customer to drive down the road uncontrollably and then having to go in and spend thousands to try to put a band aid on the situation.... The more I am reading about the handling issues in these new Motor Homes the more it makes me think of keeping our 2013 travel trailer!

That might be a bit of an over-generalization.

I'm too much of a perfectionist and I'm not going to change at my age. We actually were very pleasantly surprised at how the motorhome drove and handled as stock. Things that bothered me went unnoticed by my DW. Forest River aligns them at the factory and you can see they did a good job on ours. We have friends that have the same unit with a different floor plan and have done precisely zero handling mods.

That being said, there certainly are ones that drive like qwap from the factory, like a brand new Winnebago Vista LX 35F we test drove. "All over the road" would not be an overstatement but it did not get blown around by passing semis and other large trucks. It just did it by itself.

A good alignment likely would have corrected much of that problem.

There definitely are advantages to travel trailers and fifth wheels. For example, we lose five feet or more of living space because of the driving area and the engine compartment. TT's and fivers have more usable space for the same length.

But TT's and fivers can have their own design problems as well, such as axles almost dead in the center that result in a massive overhang and instability. Where we pay in suspension upgrades, TT and fiver owners might pay $400 to $700 in a WDH and those can have their own setup complexities. And maybe a generator.

We seriously considered a 38' TT that we loved. But not owning a massive truck to pull it meant the total price was coming close to $100K as well.

Each has its own advantages and disadvantages; it all depends on what you want and are willing to put up with doing. And how much of a perfectionist you are.

Ray

davidki · 11-08-2019, 01:55 PM

Nothing wrong with being a perfectionist... I find though at some point you just have to live with what you have :-)

We have had 2 MH, 1st was a 22' 1999 Lazy Daze that my wife still hounds me because we sold it... then a 30' Monaco Dynasty DP... Yep, 30' which I was tired of having issues with...

Took some time of from MH's and bought a 37' sport fisher..... that old adage of a hole in the water to drop money in was exactly what they are.... We got out of RV's for a while and when we moved from Southern Cal to Nashville we just wanted something for short trips 3 or 4 days at a time and since we had the room, we built a RV Garage to hold the Truck and Trailer.... We had the truck because we have a horse Trailer as well.

We do continue to look at the new RV's, and think about changing but for our use 2 or 3 times a year it is hard to make a move to a new RV.

The new Truck prices are crazy... especially if you want to go diesel, the big 2500hd and 3500 HD's are $70,000+ just for the truck.... OUCH..

It sounds like you get alot of use out of your MH and I"m susre you will do fine with it... and I'd love to get one of the 31' untis on the 22.5: tires... but right now... I just can't see that for as little as we would use it..

Nickd · 11-08-2019, 09:40 PM

Ray,
The Itasca 31BE was aligned today and the sway bars put on. Even had the rear sway bar bushings replaced with the hard Blue polyurethane ones from Skuterdude. The Tech says he sees a lot of melted and destroyed bushings even on the newer coaches. Ford definitely has issues with poor fit, bushing quality and they install them DRY.

The camber, caster and toe were close from the factory. However the rear axle was a bit out of square (thrust angle). The tech said it is more common than you would think, He re-set up both axles and I'm pretty happy. The big box runs out like a giant SUV now.

The sway bar upgrades were a good next step for me. It is really a different vehicle now. I'm honestly shocked at the scale of the improvement.

In the future, I will still add the Koni FSD's and a Steering Stabilizer just for safety and comfort. The Tech said they sell Koni's before SumoSprings as most prefer the Koni's overall ride improvement. A part of me still wants the Sumo's though. Wish they were easier to try before you buy.

Enjoy the ride,
Nick

NXR · 11-08-2019, 10:37 PM

I put Koni FSD's all the way around when before I was going to do Sumo's. Sway as measured with an inclinometer is about half what it was and the ride and jarring are much, much improved.

There are a couple of local roads that jarred the coach so much that the Garmin RV 785 thought we hit somebody and activated an "event". That means it automatically saves the built-in dashcam video of 1.5 minutes before and after the "event".

After the Koni's those bad parts do not feel any worse than other parts of those roads. Pretty amazing to me.

Ray