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Old 06-19-2016, 08:39 PM   #1
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4R100 1999 Solenoid block PWM or NON PWM?

Ford introduced the 4R100 transmission in 1998.

The 4R100 transmission in 1998 for gas F53 still had a NON-PWM solenoid block. But the Diesel in 1998 got the PWM solenoid version.

In 1999 to 2004 the 4R100 for gas was change to PWM solenoid.

See this link that explains what PWM means: https://launchx431diagun.wordpress.c...p-differences/


Last january I changed my Solenoid Block on my 4R100 1999 transmission. It is easy, we simply remove the pan and change it.

Since I have a 1999 I took the PWM version. This is also what rockauto.com suggested for my F53 1999. In fact rockauto suggest the same for 1999 to 2004.
1999 FORD F53 6.8L V10 Control Solenoid | RockAuto

So I have put a F81Z-7G391CB & AB also called F81P-7G391-CC. On the web this is similar to 36949B, 36420D. Rockauto propose these PWM versions for my 1999: F53 DACCO 36949B or STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS TCS114.

But the old one I have removed was a NON-PWM. It was the model: F81P-7G391-BA. I see on the web that this is identical to : F7TZ-7G391-AA, F5TZ-7G391-A, 36420B, 36949A. (I was stuck in a camground in Florida far away from home and changed it on my camp site)

This means I have a 1998 transmission on my F53 1999. This is weird. When I check my VIN Ford says it was built on april 26 1999.

I understand that many parts could have been built in the previous years, but I would expect that when I am looking for a part for a 1999 F53 they give me the part that was designed for that year.

So this is important for anybody that has a F53 1999 since we could put the wrong part. My transmission is going in safe mode when I drive stop-and-go in town. I feel that if I have the wrong part number it could cause many problems.

Here is a very important document that explains how to determine the difference between the E40D and the 4R100 many versions. http://www.atraonline.com/gears/2004.../2004_3_16.pdf

I plan to order a new Solenoid Block that is NON-PWM. But I wonder if the previous owner made a mistake and put the wrong solenoid block and that the one I have put is the right one.

Anybody knows about this?
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Old 06-19-2016, 09:06 PM   #2
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Here is the information I get for my VIN, it says I have a 4R100 (on vindecoder.net):

Primary Features
Build Date: 26.04.1999
Vehicle Line: F53 Stripped Chassis
Body Style: Recreational Stripped Chassis
Version: Ford 550 Series
Engine: 6.8L SOHC EFI NA V10 Gas
Transmission: E4OD(4R100)
Drive: LHD RWD
Emission: With 49 State Emission Requirements
Air Conditioning:

Serial number 31939
Region/plant : Monterrey Mexico
Model: F-550 Super Duty
Approx mileage: 167,134mi


Minor Features
• 228"/5791MM Wheelbase
• Monterrey/Immsa Plant Build SA Mexico
• Recreational Stripped Chassis
• Less Rear Axle Limited Slip Diff
• 13,500 LB Rear Axle Assy
• 6.8L SOHC EFI NA V10 Gas
• 4 Wheel Anti-Lock Braking System
• Ford 550 Series
• E4OD(4R100)
• F53 Stripped Chassis
• 275hp V10
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Old 06-19-2016, 09:17 PM   #3
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Oups!
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Old 06-20-2016, 07:19 AM   #4
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In April 1999 production should have had the PWM solenoid. That's true for the pickups and vans, but I'm not certain what the F53 was using. I would think it would be the same, but I'm far from certain.
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Old 06-20-2016, 07:28 AM   #5
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I'm going from memory, but I believe "1999" F53 production started shortly after January 1st, 1998 as there was no 1998 model year F53 chassis.

I'll google and see if I can find the exact date, as it sounds some early F53's may have different setups than ones just a few months newer....
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Old 06-20-2016, 10:51 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Kovalsky View Post
In April 1999 production should have had the PWM solenoid. That's true for the pickups and vans, but I'm not certain what the F53 was using. I would think it would be the same, but I'm far from certain.
For my vin on vindecoder.net they says I have E4OD(4R100).

The fact they show also E40D probably means I have the NON PWM version. And maybe for another VIN when they say 4R100 without the E40D mention then this is the PWM version.

Could anybody with a more recent vin number see what vindecoder.net gives.

You can also use this string if you place your vin number instead of the PUTYOURVINNUMBERHERE:

Vehicle Identification Number VIN PUTYOURVINNUMBERHERE

To decode even further use:
Pour dιcoder le VIN : https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Vehicl...Ford/VIN_Codes
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Old 06-20-2016, 11:34 AM   #7
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Follow-up.

I just called Ford dealer. For my VIN he has the part number: F81Z-7G391-BA. This is the NON-PWM. He says it is a 4R100. Price 595.77$Cad + taxes.

I just bought one on eBay. Coud not find it on rockauto.

So be carefull those that have the F53 1999. Part dealers could give you the wrong part.
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Old 06-20-2016, 11:35 PM   #8
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When I was researching how to modify my transmission, don't use me as a solid source but I think I remember you could put a pwm solenoid pack in a E4OD but could not a non-pwm in a 4r100.
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Old 06-21-2016, 09:55 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyderRV View Post
When I was researching how to modify my transmission, don't use me as a solid source but I think I remember you could put a pwm solenoid pack in a E4OD but could not a non-pwm in a 4r100.
Actually I have done that and it work. But I have some problems on stop-and-go. I don't know if it is related. The same solenoid pack goes also on F150 pick-up truck. So maybe in a F150 they don't see much difference but what about a heavy F53.

In this document they say the parts or not interchangeable: https://launchx431diagun.wordpress.c...p-differences/

In this other document they say: The TCC solenoid is 10-20 ohms rather than 20-30 ohms. http://www.atraonline.com/gears/2004.../2004_3_16.pdf
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Old 06-22-2016, 09:21 AM   #10
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In this other document they say: The new TCC solenoid is 10-20 ohms rather than 20-30 ohms. http://www.atraonline.com/gears/2004.../2004_3_16.pdf

I just read about the TCC solenoid. And I think having the wrong Solenoid block could cause the transmission to develop excessive heat just like I seems to have.

I have found this text that talks about the TCC: Transmission Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid

They say: A transmission that slips while in lockup because the system is overloaded will generate tremendous heat. These situations normally end with complete transmission failure.

They say also: With respect to drivability and performance, a malfunctioning torque converter clutch solenoid (one that fails in the closed position) may not be noticeable.

So since my wrong model of Solenoid block has the wrong TCC solenoid it could be the cause of my overheating problems and safe mode.

Conclusion: You should use the NON-PWM solenoid block if this is what Ford give as the right part. But if we can not get a NON-PWM one, then maybe we could put a PWM model and keep the old TCC solenoid that works on 20-30 ohms.

Here are texts in this document:

Faulty Transmission Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid:
SYMPTOMS - Failed in the Closed Position
With respect to drivability and performance, a malfunctioning torque converter clutch solenoid (one that fails in the closed position) may not be noticeable. However, if you pay close attention to your gas mileage, you will see an increase in fuel consumption because the engine and transmission are not locking up at highway speeds because the faulty solenoid. Thus, you have slipping, which causes the engine to work harder. The harder the engine works the more fuel it consumes. Slipping also generates heat. Any time a transmission overheats, some internal damage occurs.
NOTE: To say that the lockup torque converter LOCKS the engine and transmission together isn't completely accurate because slipping can still occur if the vehicle has a heavy enough load. A transmission that slips while in lockup because the system is overloaded will generate tremendous heat. These situations normally end with complete transmission failure.
A faulty torque converter clutch solenoid normally sets a Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC), which causes the Check Engine Light to come on. A faulty torque converter clutch solenoid will normally set diagnostic trouble code P0740.

Faulty Transmission Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid:
SYMPTOMS - Failed in the Open Position
The symptoms are different a torque converter clutch solenoid that fails in the open position... The symptoms of a torque converter clutch solenoid that fails while in the open position are quite different from a solenoid that fails in the closed position, as described above. When the solenoid is open, the engine is locked to the transmission so there is no transmission slip. With the transmission unable to slip, the engine will stall when the vehicle comes to a stop.
This type of solenoid failure will set a Diagnostic Trouble Code causing the Check Engine Light to illuminate. The same Diagnostic Trouble Codes listed above apply.

Fail Safe (or Limp Mode)

A failed transmission solenoid or an open circuit anywhere in the electrical system may cause the transmission to go into Fail Safe (or "limp" mode as it is also called) in order to protect the transmission from internal damage that might be caused by the condition. In fail safe/limp mode, the transmission locks in either 2nd or 3rd gear and will have limited functionality. When the transmission is in fail safe mode, the vehicle should only be drive home or to the repair shop. Maximum speed while in limp mode is around 30 mph.

WARNING: Continuing to drive the vehicle with the transmission in limp mode and/or driving faster than the recommended fail safe speed will cause the transmission to overheat. Excessive heat build will cause serious internal damage to the transmission.

Transmission Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Solenoid:
DESCRIPTION

Positioned between the rear of the engine and the front of the transmission is the torque converter. The torque converter is responsible for transmitting the engine's torque and power to the transmission. To prevent slipping at certain speeds (normally speeds exceeding 37 mph) a lockup clutch located inside the converter locks the engine's output drive to the transmission's input shaft to achieve a 1:1 ratio - meaning 100% of the engine's power is now reaching the transmission.

The fluid pressure that applies and releases the torque converter lockup clutch is controlled by the torque converter clutch solenoid. The opening and closing of the TCC solenoid valve is controlled by the transmission control module (TCM) or powertrain control module (PCM), depending on the vehicle.
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Old 06-22-2016, 09:36 AM   #11
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Here is what eBay member transpartsnow503 says about a PWM solenoid block incompatibility with a NON-PWM solenoid block:

You can measure the OHM's of the lock up solenoid pins to make sure this is the correct PWM solenoid (check the picture).

OHM's Should be 10-15 if not, this is the wrong solenoid.

Also the Ford part number is stamped in the solenoid, needs to start with "F8"

This is a PWM solenoid and does not work with an ON/OFF solenoid type.


Ford 4R100 PWM 98 04 Solenoid Block Tested AND 2x4 Filter AND Gasket R36420D2FK | eBay


Here is how to mesure a TCC solenoid on a PWM Block:

Click on the image.

Here is how to measure a TCC solenoid on a NON PWM block:
Click on the image.

So it is now clearer, my problems are probably related to my solenoid block incompatibility.
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Old 06-22-2016, 10:03 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbilodeau View Post
Here is the information I get for my VIN, it says I have a 4R100 (on vindecoder.net):

Primary Features
Build Date: 26.04.1999
Vehicle Line: F53 Stripped Chassis
Body Style: Recreational Stripped Chassis
Version: Ford 550 Series
Engine: 6.8L SOHC EFI NA V10 Gas
Transmission: E4OD(4R100)
Drive: LHD RWD
Emission: With 49 State Emission Requirements
Air Conditioning:

Serial number 31939
Region/plant : Monterrey Mexico
Model: F-550 Super Duty
Approx mileage: 167,134mi


Minor Features
• 228"/5791MM Wheelbase
• Monterrey/Immsa Plant Build SA Mexico
• Recreational Stripped Chassis
• Less Rear Axle Limited Slip Diff
• 13,500 LB Rear Axle Assy
• 6.8L SOHC EFI NA V10 Gas
• 4 Wheel Anti-Lock Braking System
• Ford 550 Series
• E4OD(4R100)
• F53 Stripped Chassis
• 275hp V10
Just wondering how you got all that information, here is what mine returned

Model: F53
Type: Bus
Make: Ford
Model year: 1999
Manufacturer: Ford Motor Company
Manufactured in: Mexico (North America)
Plant: IMMSA: Monterrey, Mexico
Sequential number: 13249

Body style: Recreational - Conventional
Chassis: Motorhome
Driveline: 2WD
Engine series: V-10 6.8L
Engine type: V10, 6.8L EFI-SOHC
Fuel type: Gasoline
Series: F Series Super Duty - Gasoline Only
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Old 06-22-2016, 12:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrt_1111 View Post
Just wondering how you got all that information

..
Sorry, probably took a mix of a few vin decoder.

See this one, you will have a lot of informations, click on the multiples tabs: VIN Decoder - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

Another one: https://vindecoder.eu/check-vin/PUTYOURVINHERE
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Old 07-10-2016, 04:34 AM   #14
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I have put the NON PWM solenoid block in. The transmission seems to react better and normally. It did not go into safe mode yet. Did not put many miles yet and it was not very hot temperature outside....
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