$5000 brake job?

[TeJay]

IMO!! You should not be having those kind of issues with a system built in 2012. It is 9 years old and you do have almost 100,000 miles on the chassis.

Recent changes in vehicle service.

I taught Auto mechanics from 1971 until 2006. Time flies but even before I retired flushing the complete brake system fluid every 2-3 years was not usually a common practice. In fact I very seldom ever head anybody talking about it. Now it is recommended every 2-3 years.

I also think it's a great idea and sure to prolong brake system life. Brake fluid is the only vehicle fluid that does not circulate nor is it filtered. It's also the only fluid that absorbs water and is very caustic. Yet it took a long time before brake flushing became a regular recommended service by dealers.

You've gotten good advice and some darn good offers. Rotors can be machined and should be as long as they remain thick enough to still act as a good heat sink for brake heat. The minimum thickness was always stamped on the rotors. If they are grooved they need to be replaced. If they have enough thickness remaining they can be machined. The RV is a truck chassis. The rotors are plenty thick and can be machined 2 or more times before reaching the minimum thickness.

Rebuilding calipers is still an easy repair to perform. One can also replace the calipers as well. The choice is yours.

Flexible (rubber) brake line should be replaced after 8 to 12 years of age. They fail internally long before you see external issues. You're ready for that.

Brake lines usually last longer than 10 years. That does not mean your's are not failing. Brake fluid absorbs water and water causes internal rust. The lines have to be checked for sure.

You said you had the brakes checked often. Did they flush the fluid??? If they did not it's time and internal rust is very possible. I could be incorrect but I guess replacement lines for your unit would cost not more than $150 for all of them maybe including the flex (rubber) lines.

One last recommendation. We now have available brake bleeders with a check valve. They are about $7 each and can be installed permanently. Bleeding the system just became a one person 30 minute job.

I'll be bleeding our this spring again before we head out for the summer fun!!!

There is a thread discussing this procedure!!!

[RELHUB]

Originally Posted by FredKate

Just got off the phone with repair shop and he is giving a $5000 ball park estimate for a brake job on my ACE. He says the left side (front and rear) is metal to metal but the right rear still had 50% left. Front right was in between. He states this indicates an issue with the brake lines. He recommends new brake lines, pads, rotors, and calipers all around. Does this sound reasonable?.

The coach has 96,500 miles but I have the brakes checked every year...or so I told the last mechanic to do so. I just started to hear some noise from the brakes on the way from Las Vegas to FL last month. The coach didn't seem to require more brake pedal pressure and it did seem to stop OK.

Wow it sounds like they want to retire off this brake job. You will need ROTORS and PADS but lines only if they are rusted pretty bad. This still sounds really high.

fyi... I just did the front and rear brakes on our 2013 MH.
I did it myself using FORD factory parts.
Total parts cost me $256.97 + some brake kleen.
My rotors were still good and I was able to reuse them.
If I needed to replace my rotors, they would have been $450.00 each.

[FredKate]

Originally Posted by No Sweat

Where are you now ?? Has the RV been in salty roads or near the beach in Florida ? That's the only way to get rusty steel brake lines. A bad caliper will wear the pads more on one side. Have you had the brake fluid regularly ?? What shop is it at ?? Hope not at a Camping World. It probably only needs Rubber Hoses, Calipers, Pads and New Rotors on the front and flush the rear brakes if they have enough thickness on the pads !!

In FL now but have been in all 49 states. Not much driving on salty roads but a couple of times each year at the beach for days. Unfortunately, I have not had the brake fluid ever changed that I can recall. I have the coach now at a truck repair shop that had 7 RVs in the lot when I dropped mine off yesteray.

[FredKate]

Originally Posted by RELHUB

Wow it sounds like they want to retire off this brake job. You will need ROTORS and PADS but lines only if they are rusted pretty bad. This still sounds really high.

fyi... I just did the front and rear brakes on our 2013 MH.
I did it myself using FORD factory parts.
Total parts cost me $256.97 + some brake kleen.
My rotors were still good and I was able to reuse them.
If I needed to replace my rotors, they would have been $450.00 each.

$450 for each rotor?

[TeJay]

Not really understanding the idea of not wanting to machine rotors. Or at least the fact that nobody has responded or commented on the idea.

Back in about 1995 I bought a used (3,000 miles) Isuzu pickup truck. The guy bought it new got transfered to snow country and wanted a 4-wheel drive.

From the very beginning the rotors were warped so the steering wheel vibrated and the brake pedal pulsated when braking. I machined the rotors and removed maybe .005 from each rotor. I did that about every 10,000 to 15,000 miles until I sold the truck in 2006 my lasy year of teaching. Before I sold it I replaced the rotors.

I machined the rotors probably 4-6 times and the brakes worked fine. I replaced the rotors with 65,000 miles.

Machining rotors was ALWAYS recommended when changing pads. We always set them up on the lathe and checked for run-out and machined as little as needed. Also placed a non-directional finish (100 grit paper using a small circular grinder) on both surfaces of the rotors.

When pads are burnished (broken or worn in) some brake material is transfered to the rotor surface. When pads are changed the smooth embedded surface does not work well to assist in the burnishing process for the new metalic pads.

Proper burnishing requires about 200 starts and stops with proper cooling down. That is done by the owner under normal braking. According to the DOT full or 100% braking efficiency does not occur until the pads are properly burnished.

I realize few talk about this but you can do some research and read it for your self.

Most every time I replaced rotors I always set them up on the brake lathe (which was dialed in correctly) and 90% of them were out of specs for run out. Little material was removed but just enough to bring them back to specs. Why install rotors that have excessive or any run out??? Why replace rotors if they are still thick enough to allow machining?? To me that makes no sense.

Why is there a minimum thickness?? Brakes work by creating friction. The rotor acts as a heat sink to absorb and remove the heat away from the rotor and pad surface.
The thinner the rotor the less efficient at removing the heat so glazing may result.

Excessive heat creates glazing of the pads which affectively ruins them. The smoother the surface the less friction is created.

I'm sure one can get by without doing any of the stuff mentioned. You can replace good rotors but I'd prefer to save some $$$$$ if & when I can. I also know machining rotors is a perfectively legitimate repair technique. I did it for 35 years. I'll rest better knowing I did all that I could to perform the best brake job possible.

[Unplanned Tourist]

Originally Posted by TeJay

I'm sure one can get by without doing any of the stuff mentioned. You can replace good rotors but I'd prefer to save some $$$$$ if & when I can. I also know machining rotors is a perfectively legitimate repair technique. I did it for 35 years. I'll rest better knowing I did all that I could to perform the best brake job possible.

That seems to be the difference between old mechanics and the new ones. Parts are much easier to replace than repair, so thats the way they go. Also hourly rates are getting so high that sometimes it's cheaper to replace than repair.

$5,000 for a brake job is sounding a little high, even with all the parts listed. Especially for a 2012 model.

[F4Gary]

You don't need new metal brake lines.


I would definitely change the rubber frame to caliper brake lines. Search the internet. Less that $30 each.


If the caliper pistons are made out of phenolic then they may have swelled and you replace the whole caliper. Less than $100 each.


Discs, at least try to turn them on a brake lathe and see if they are still within limits. Any brake mechanic should know this.


Replace the pads. Search the internet for good pads.


$5000 is outrageous.

[bmcgc]

RockAuto sells all brake parts for a F-53 chassis.

Rotors run $40-$125 each. I recommend the coated rotors if available.

Many shops no longer turn rotors, replacements are cheaper than buying the machine and the labor to operate it.

5k is robbery. Parts will run you less than $1000 and maybe less than $750. 3-4 hours labor.

[txcpl]

You are correct is questioning the seemingly high cost of this very common vehicle repair. Take the vehicle to another shop or two and get estimates from them. Then make your choice.

[Trapper2022]

That shop is out of their mind. 5k is a ridiculous price. Shop around, the repairs are an easy job that can be done by any average mechanic. this sounds like a repair guy trying to take advantage of someone that is not knowledgeable about auto repair. Safe travels

Enjoy the journey

[corvetteSS]

OK, a quick check on RockAuto.com for parts for a F53 (2017 my year)


all new calipers (4 @ $150) = $600
all new rotors with pads Front=$250
all new rotors and pads Rear = $250


so replacing ALL the wear parts (what I would do) is $1100


Other costs would be: labor,shop charges,maybe a hose,brake fluid.shipping


And that is replacing everything.


That is what I am planning for when the time comes.

[Roy-c]

I am also a retired Auto Tech Instructor and $5,000.00 is way out of line. Rubber brake hoses rarely fail so that the fluid cannot return to the reservoir thus holding pressure on the brake pads. It does happen but to 2 hoses on the same vehicle ? Highly unlikely. More likely is frozen caliper slides or pistons. Especially on a vehicle that sits a lot. An RV doesn't get the same type of use as a daily driver. In any case, worst possible scenario is still less than 5K by at least half. Find another shop.

[n2zon]

Originally Posted by TeJay

Not really understanding the idea of not wanting to machine rotors. Or at least the fact that nobody has responded or commented on the idea.

Back in about 1995 I bought a used (3,000 miles) Isuzu pickup truck. The guy bought it new got transfered to snow country and wanted a 4-wheel drive.

From the very beginning the rotors were warped so the steering wheel vibrated and the brake pedal pulsated when braking. I machined the rotors and removed maybe .005 from each rotor. I did that about every 10,000 to 15,000 miles until I sold the truck in 2006 my lasy year of teaching. Before I sold it I replaced the rotors.

I machined the rotors probably 4-6 times and the brakes worked fine. I replaced the rotors with 65,000 miles.

Machining rotors was ALWAYS recommended when changing pads. We always set them up on the lathe and checked for run-out and machined as little as needed. Also placed a non-directional finish (100 grit paper using a small circular grinder) on both surfaces of the rotors.

When pads are burnished (broken or worn in) some brake material is transfered to the rotor surface. When pads are changed the smooth embedded surface does not work well to assist in the burnishing process for the new metalic pads.

Proper burnishing requires about 200 starts and stops with proper cooling down. That is done by the owner under normal braking. According to the DOT full or 100% braking efficiency does not occur until the pads are properly burnished.

I realize few talk about this but you can do some research and read it for your self.

Most every time I replaced rotors I always set them up on the brake lathe (which was dialed in correctly) and 90% of them were out of specs for run out. Little material was removed but just enough to bring them back to specs. Why install rotors that have excessive or any run out??? Why replace rotors if they are still thick enough to allow machining?? To me that makes no sense.

Why is there a minimum thickness?? Brakes work by creating friction. The rotor acts as a heat sink to absorb and remove the heat away from the rotor and pad surface.
The thinner the rotor the less efficient at removing the heat so glazing may result.

Excessive heat creates glazing of the pads which affectively ruins them. The smoother the surface the less friction is created.

I'm sure one can get by without doing any of the stuff mentioned. You can replace good rotors but I'd prefer to save some $$$$$ if & when I can. I also know machining rotors is a perfectively legitimate repair technique. I did it for 35 years. I'll rest better knowing I did all that I could to perform the best brake job possible.

The cost of machining rotors approaches the cost of replacements much of the time. If you were to machine them on an engine lathe with a toolpost grinder there would be no need for a second operation (grin). The "burnishing" you are talking about is often called "bedding" the pads, so knowing both terms might help a Google search. +

There are various techniques, but part of the reason to do that after a brake job is to prevent what is sometimes called "green fade." The binding material used on some pads offgasses when heated. The offgassing is reduced after a few high heat cycles. Before it's reduced, a partial gas bearing can result between the pads and the rotors, reducing braking capability in a panic stop to near-zero. Nothing good has been said about approaching something solid at high speed with a bad case of brake fade.

I have fallen out of touch with the technology here, I'm afraid. It could be the case that more modern pads are made with binders that do not offgas to the extent older ones did. Nevertheless, I bed my pads on a back road with little traffic after replacing them. (Nobody else has replaced my pads for a really long time.)

[TeJay]

John,

Thanks for your response. My information regarding bedding, burnishing pads came from a DOT manual all about brakes. I also had a CD given to me from our local NAPA dealer. It had a great deal of great information all about brakes, rotors, etc etc. Living in the Detroit area I also attended several brake clinics over the years. Always learning!!!

It is ture that brake materials change a lot and have changed much over the years. The first thing that happened is we got rid of asbestos. Then we went to semi-metalic or all metalic pads. That to has changed but we also used some ceramic materials for a time. I like you have been out of the business for 15 years so what I'd do if I needed to replace my F-53 pads is head to several truck shops in our area.

I've got students who work in and own some of these places. Truck repair technicians will be current with the changes in pad materials. If a truck is in a shop to often for brake repair those shops won't keep their business. Any truck in a shop longer or more often than necessary is losing $$$ for the owner. It pays to use only quality parts and do the job correctly with one attempt.

I'm not at all familiar with rotor maching costs today. Back in the day rotor machining was less than $20 a rotor. I seriously doubt the cost would be any where near $40 or $50 a rotor. Then again maybe I'm way off.

In some cases rotors may have gotten cheap enough to just replace. If that's the case so be it! Then maybe I'd buy replacements as well. With RV truck chassis rotors I doubt that's the case. Truck rotors can't be cheap based on the size they have to be to act as a good heat sink.

When we began to deal with front CV axles we had a shop locally who rebuilt the old axles. NAPA sold replacement axles but in the beginning if we had torn rubber CV boots we'd pull the axles and take them apart to replace the boot. When the boot ripped we'd loose all the CV grease and we had to replace the boot.

Eventually when the part houses realized they had a great thing with replacing CV axles it became cheap enough to do just that!! Just like most stuff like that. At first you do what you have to then use the alternatives provided for you my the parts houses.

IMHO!! My other reason for machining still stands. That rotor surface has to be machined to remove the previously embedded brake materials. Then the surface has to be rough enough to create the necessary friction to heat the materials sufficiently to cause wear both on the rotor and the pad.

Early in my teaching career I thought if I used a better cutter on my brake lathe they would last longer. I called a place and told him what I wanted to do. He proceeded to inform me that I had the wrong idea of what a brake lathe was supposed to do. A ceramic cutter would create to smooth of a surface and therefore not allow enough friction to occur to properly burnish the linings.

I was also explaining the idea of burnishing pads on a TT forum and one guy posted that after doing his TT brakes he'd take his TT out and brake it hard and long enough to get them smoking and then he was done with burnishing. Actually all he did was glaze them to the point they were proberly ruined. Some folks just seem to know it all.

What you said about offgassing is new to me. Learn something new every day. It is entirely possible but if burnishing is done correctly, that is with not doing any panic stops if at all possible, maybe that is what stops offgassing They tell you only do smooth stops from about 45 MPH down to about 30 MPH with a cool down period of about 1-2 minutes. We know nobody is going to do that but gently stopping and just norman driving will do the job as well!!!

We had an AMMCO lathe and could machine a car or truck rotor in under 15 minutes.