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Old 06-01-2020, 04:36 PM   #1
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Any F53 with Evans Tempcon A/C experts?

Hey all,


Trying to diagnose a problem with the dash A/C not working.


I need some help understanding the pressures I got on the Evans Tempcon A/C based on the ET's pressure chart below.

This first picture are the pressures before starting the engine:




And these are the pressures after starting the engine:



And here is the Evans Tempcon pressure chart (temp was low 70s at the time):



The compressor didn't engage.

I hooked up one of those "add you own 134a" cans with the little gauge on it to the low pressure side and it said the system was nearly full so I didn't add anything.

I've read it might be a relay not engaging the compressor clutch, but haven't had time to check the relay yet.

Also haven't had time to climb under and check the compressor itself.

My question: based on this info so far it seems the system has 134a fully charged so there's no leak, does this seem plausible?

Anything else I can check?

Thanks for the help!

Mike
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Old 06-01-2020, 06:22 PM   #2
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I think the pressure is too low on the low side A/C clutch cycling pressure switch to engage the compressor.
You are showing 25psi.




/
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:22 PM   #3
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Hey Bill


Would u say that's an indication of low coolant level or something else?
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:32 PM   #4
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Hey all,


Trying to diagnose a problem with the dash A/C not working.


I need some help understanding the pressures I got on the Evans Tempcon A/C based on the ET's pressure chart below.

This first picture are the pressures before starting the engine:




And these are the pressures after starting the engine:



And here is the Evans Tempcon pressure chart (temp was low 70s at the time):



The compressor didn't engage.

I hooked up one of those "add you own 134a" cans with the little gauge on it to the low pressure side and it said the system was nearly full so I didn't add anything.

I've read it might be a relay not engaging the compressor clutch, but haven't had time to check the relay yet.

Also haven't had time to climb under and check the compressor itself.

My question: based on this info so far it seems the system has 134a fully charged so there's no leak, does this seem plausible?

Anything else I can check?

Thanks for the help!

Mike

Sorry, It most definitely does not have a full charge if the manifold set is properly indicating. I am using the first picture of the manifold as reference.

With a full charge, and a stopped, cold engine, not having run for 12 hours, or more, the pressure on both sides should be equal (approx.) and read about 60 pounds at an out side temperature of 68 degrees. That is the standard vapor pressure of R134A at that temperature.

You have conflicting information. If the gauge on the can says you have a charge, and the manifold set says you do not, you must resolve that first thing.

Possibly the can did not properly connect to the valve and is reading full can pressure. That would be 80-90 or more pounds pressure indicated, depending on can temperature.

If you are not familiar with the no-leak valves, they can be difficult to operate in hidden or restricted places. Pull back the slip collar on the hose and push the hose very firmly into the connector to engage. Then release the collar. Pull the hose back to verify connection. It will not release until the collar is pulled back.

If the hose is now properly attached, and the gage indicates low pressure, you have nothing to loose by injecting a full can with the engine running. Do it slowly and give the 134a a chance to vaporize.

Good luck

Phil
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Old 06-01-2020, 09:42 PM   #5
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hey thanks for the info. I'll give it a try when I'm back at the RV this weekend!
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Old 06-02-2020, 06:04 AM   #6
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Hey Bill


Would u say that's an indication of low coolant level or something else?
I do not think the gauges were not attached right in the first photo or not at all.

The second photo shows the gauges attached with the compressor not running. Both hi and low gauges read the same pressure. This maybe do to a low charge.

Why are you buying a do it your self "add you own 134a" cans if you have a set of manifold gauges?
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Old 06-02-2020, 08:23 AM   #7
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well I bought the DIY 134a a few months ago but haven't had time to getting around to working on this problem. Then I watched about a gazillion YouTube videos about using the gauges and the problem with overfilling an A/C system so I was being extra cautious.


I'll try it all again this weekend and double check my gauge connections. Also guess I should introduce to dye into the system to check for leaks.
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Old 06-02-2020, 11:17 AM   #8
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well I bought the DIY 134a a few months ago but haven't had time to getting around to working on this problem. Then I watched about a gazillion YouTube videos about using the gauges and the problem with overfilling an A/C system so I was being extra cautious.


I'll try it all again this weekend and double check my gauge connections. Also guess I should introduce to dye into the system to check for leaks.
If the system is empty and air has entered...so has moisture. I suggest you obtain a vacuum pump and draw out the air and boil off the water.

Try to hold a vacuum as a test for leaks. The reasoning is, if water has entered the system, and not removed....the system operation will fail, and you will loose all refrigerant.

If you don't find the leak before charging the system...you will loose all the refrigerant. And the dye too. This stuff is not cheap.

I am no Greenie....but there are environmental concerns and this stuff should be captured and recycled.

Just sayin'.....some times DIY isn't the best way.

I just successfully finished a repair on my coach that took all of two years to locate an intermittent leak. Only leaked at high temperature and high speed...sometimes. Seals on the compressor were the cause. The dye was the key to finding it. Good thing my shop was friendly to motor homes and easy to work with.

Acquired the MH used and the seller had the A/C serviced, so we knew there was an issue from the start. That service held for nearly a year. When the vehicle is not driven frequently, it takes a while to get some things finished.


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Old 06-02-2020, 11:26 AM   #9
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Hey Psouza,


This is good advice. I've been thinking about getting a vacuum pump to pull a vacuum and see if it will hold, but have the same concerns about releasing 134a into the atmosphere.


I've been looking for a good local shop that can do it for me... just hate taking it to a dealership and wasting all that money
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Old 06-02-2020, 11:34 AM   #10
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Hey Psouza,


This is good advice. I've been thinking about getting a vacuum pump to pull a vacuum and see if it will hold, but have the same concerns about releasing 134a into the atmosphere.


I've been looking for a good local shop that can do it for me... just hate taking it to a dealership and wasting all that money
Well... Some times we can be pretty tenacious / stubborn, and not want to let go and the costs can climb... and then we fail anyway.


Phil
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Old 06-21-2020, 10:39 AM   #11
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Ok everyone here's a follow up.


After all the wonderful advice on this forum, I snagged some loaner manifold gauges from Autozone and added 2 lbs of 134a (F53 of this year says 2.75lbs is max). Seemed to work and I got cooling out of the A/C and it does sound like the compressor is kicking on when I turn on A/C.


But I decided to let system sit for a week and come back today and check today.


Static pressure on both high and low matched the ambient temp (low 60s). So I started the rig and let the vent air only run over a temp gauge. After 5 minutes the temp out of the vent was 64 C


So I turn on A/C, compressor kicks on, and here is what the gauges read now:




Here is the pressure chart from Evans Tempcon





and after letting the A/C run for 10 minutes the air blowing out of the vent hovered around 42 C







According to the chart and gauges (sorry gauge is hard to read) it seems about right.


Maybe there is a slow leak, but not enough to evacuate the system in one week. I'm thinking about taking the rig into A/C shop and get a complete evac and recharge with dye and see if I can find a leak over time.


Any thoughts? Any suggestions? Am I reading all this wrong?


Thanks!


Mike
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Old 06-21-2020, 10:42 PM   #12
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Ok everyone here's a follow up.



According to the chart and gauges (sorry gauge is hard to read) it seems about right.


Maybe there is a slow leak, but not enough to evacuate the system in one week. I'm thinking about taking the rig into A/C shop and get a complete evac and recharge with dye and see if I can find a leak over time.


Any thoughts? Any suggestions? Am I reading all this wrong?


Thanks!
Mike
I agree that the chart and your readings seem appropriate, for the small amount of heat that the refrigerant has stored.

At this point, you have proved only that there is still enough refrigerant in there to drop the evaporator output temperature a respectable amount.

You have undoubtedly read the manual regarding the complete test procedure. You need to do this and get the temperature of the refrigerant up. I recommend taking it for a drive for 10 or so miles and retry the test. Be precise with the temperature measurements (outside and inside ambient) and record them. Also the register output temperature.

There's got to be somewhere in the LA area with hot air.

At some point, you will want to sped the money on a professional service, including the dye injection. The additional purchase of equipment to do the job right at home is not worth it, IMHO.

Once the job has been done correctly, you still have a learning moment, by checking the pressures and logging all the pertinent information. Then sit down with the charts and compare with what you have now.

It seems that the Evans Tempcon is a leaker, no matter what, over enough time, so the dye will help trace the gross leaks, at least.

Don't be tempted to add more R134a on a gamble, and by all means do not be tempted to try some hackery idea about leak sealers, or magic juice to improve the efficiency. You probably have no damage as yet to the compressor.

Sorry the tests so far are inconclusive, but they could have been much worse.

Phil
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Old 06-21-2020, 10:53 PM   #13
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At this point, you have proved only that there is still enough refrigerant in there to drop the evaporator output temperature a noticeable amount.

You have undoubtedly read the manual regarding the complete test procedure. You need to do this and get the temperature of the refrigerant up. I recommend taking it for a drive for 10 or so miles and retry the test. Be precise with the temperature measurements (outside and inside ambient) and record them. Also the register output temperature.

There's got to be somewhere in the LA area with hot air.

At some point, you will want to sped the money on a professional service, including the dye injection. The additional purchase of equipment to do the job right at home is not worth it, IMHO.

Once the job has been done correctly, you still have a learning moment, by checking the pressures and logging all the pertinent information. Then sit down with the charts and compare with what you have now.

It seems that the Evans Tempcon is a leaker, no matter what, over enough time, so the dye will help trace the gross leaks, at least.

Don't be tempted to gamble on adding more R134a on a gamble, and by all means do not be tempted to try some hackery idea about leak sealers, or magic juice to improve the efficiency.

Sorry the tests so far are inconclusive, but they could have been much worse.

Phil

Hey Phil thanks for the info! yep I have no plans for doing the cheapo leak sealer route. I'm gonna ride this one out until I find the problem


I'll try your next steps and find a pro in the area to evac and recharge the system with dye and then keep an eye on it


Cheers!


Mike
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