Community Forums

MurphyMan · 07-30-2015, 05:39 AM

Getting our recently acquired 2006 Winnebago with the Ford E-450 chassis ready for a big trip. The front brake pads were down to about a 1/4", which would be fine here in the Midwest, but since we will be heading through the Rockies I wanted to be proactive so all the pads were replaced and had the brake fluid changed out. I took our baby to a highly recommended 4-man shop about 15 miles from home.

We made a little side trip then brought it home to continue packing. About three miles from our home I smelled something burning and pulled over. It was windy and I wrongly decided it was someone burning something outside. Got home to our driveway and lots of smoke was coming out of the drivers side rear wheel well. I mean this baby was hot!

Called the shop in a panic. The owner said "Don't worry about your trip. Give me your address and I'll be there at 8:00 tomorrow morning to fix it". He should be here in about an hour and I assume he will correct the issue with the brake.

So on one hand, I'm pissed/disappointed about the problem. On the other hand, I commend the owner for follow-up service above and beyond the norm. So my question for you good readers with experience in these matters, what is the likelihood that my one year old tires are damaged?

Any other opinions?

Thanks.

twinboat · 07-30-2015, 06:02 AM

If he don't show up with new or rebuilt calipers, I would send him back. Many times when installing new pads, the calipers are pushed back in, along with the 10 years of crud that builds up under the piston boots. Then the pistons stick.

The E450 rebuilt calipers are only $55 bucks a piece. I change all 4 on my 99 E450, due to rotted piston boots. Your MH is newer but you said you wanted to be proactive.

PushedAround · 07-30-2015, 06:18 AM

And to add, there is no likelihood at all that your tires are damaged. The tires themselves would have to get up to 200 degrees F before any changes to the rubber compound would occur. I say this from racing experience.

TeJay · 07-30-2015, 07:59 AM

The previous poster are spot on. Calipers!!

What symptom did you notice that lead you to think that your tires were smoking?? When something like that happens following a repair I usually went right back to the repair, just as you and others did. With the calipers sticking I really doubt that your tires were skidding along on the pavement which is the only way they would get hot.

Yes some of the heat from the tight calipers and hot rotors would likely make you think that the tires were hot but unless you put your hand on the tread and felt them to be very hot to the touch your tires are not in danger of failing. Also there is a big difference between the smell of burning tires and burning brake pads.

TeJay

superlucky · 07-30-2015, 08:21 AM

My guess would be that it is not the piston in the caliper, but the slider bar that is supposed to let the caliper compress and release. Fords are notorious for having this bar get corroded and then it will not allow the caliper to free up after brake application.
Ensure that they have removed the slider bar, clean/polished it and then lubed before putting it back together.

Good luck

Bill

twinboat · 07-30-2015, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superlucky

My guess would be that it is not the piston in the caliper, but the slider bar that is supposed to let the caliper compress and release. Fords are notorious for having this bar get corroded and then it will not allow the caliper to free up after brake application.
Ensure that they have removed the slider bar, clean/polished it and then lubed before putting it back together.

Good luck

Bill

The OP stated he had new pads put on. That would involve removing the slides. Just driving them in and out will clean them up. They should have put a little grease on them.

MurphyMan · 07-30-2015, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superlucky

My guess would be that it is not the piston in the caliper, but the slider bar that is supposed to let the caliper compress and release. Fords are notorious for having this bar get corroded and then it will not allow the caliper to free up after brake application.
Ensure that they have removed the slider bar, clean/polished it and then lubed before putting it back together.

Good luck

Bill

The mechanics arrived in took a look at it. They were unable to find anything wrong however they did see there is no grease on the slides. I just happen to have some in my garage so they greased it up. During the disassembly, evolve extension snapped off of the valve stem and now we have a tire with no air. They are off to get this repaired and will be back in a half hour or so. I'll let you guys know how this turns out.

twinboat · 07-30-2015, 08:56 AM

How did they explain that? Forgot to grease or it was the new guy who did it. We used to blame it on the day shift.

winnie32v · 07-30-2015, 06:35 PM

Still wondering about the smoke and heat. I had a caliper that would 'hang up' periodically and I had to change it one day when it decided to stay 'hung up'.
Please keep us informed as you work through this. I expect that a caliper replacement would be advised if you are going on a trip.................
Thanks.

WeBRVing · 07-30-2015, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MurphyMan

Getting our recently acquired 2006 Winnebago with the Ford E-450 chassis ready for a big trip. The front brake pads were down to about a 1/4", which would be fine here in the Midwest, but since we will be heading through the Rockies I wanted to be proactive so all the pads were replaced and had the brake fluid changed out. I took our baby to a highly recommended 4-man shop about 15 miles from home.

We made a little side trip then brought it home to continue packing. About three miles from our home I smelled something burning and pulled over. It was windy and I wrongly decided it was someone burning something outside. Got home to our driveway and lots of smoke was coming out of the drivers side rear wheel well. I mean this baby was hot!

Called the shop in a panic. The owner said "Don't worry about your trip. Give me your address and I'll be there at 8:00 tomorrow morning to fix it". He should be here in about an hour and I assume he will correct the issue with the brake.

So on one hand, I'm pissed/disappointed about the problem. On the other hand, I commend the owner for follow-up service above and beyond the norm. So my question for you good readers with experience in these matters, what is the likelihood that my one year old tires are damaged?

Any other opinions?

Thanks.

If your rig has anti-lock brakes it's very possible that when the pistons were pushed back into the calipers some crap ended up lodged in a valve, which may have caused a sticking caliper, although I've not experienced that in 20+ years of professional wreching on vehicles, but still a possibility.

As it's a 2006, in addition to the new pads, a total brake flush should be done. DOT 3-4 brake fluid absorbs water over time, which will corrode brake parts and also leave small particles floating about to get stuck in the most inopportune places. I know, because I had to replace all 4 calipers and master cylinder on my 1974 'Vette due to corrosion. If you can't see through the brake fluid, it should be replaced, or every 30,000 -60,000 miles at least.
Hold the shop accountable, they should have done a thorough job.
Good luck and hope you're back on the road soon.

Steady_Rest · 07-30-2015, 11:52 PM

Since I have maintained so many vehicles in this family, this problem has come up fairly often. So far the cause has always been a dirty piston bore of the caliper. The piston does not retract enough or not at all after a brake application and the pads on the bad caliper will show the most wear. It can be mild or severe. Recently after removing a caliper I could not blow the piston out with an air compressor. I had to reinstall this caliper and force the piston out with the vehicles hydraulic system.
I always disassemble the calipers at every disc pad change and install a caliper kit. You save a little doing it yourself, but that is not my prime motivation. In one recent instance when I did not have a kit at hand and none were available locally, I purchased a pair of rebuilt calipers and had to return to the parts store twice with poorly rebuilt calipers. On one of these the bleeder screw had been drilled out, tapped and fitted with a larger bleeder screw. The workmanship was so bad in both the internal tapped thread and the bleeder screw of such poor quality, that when bled the fluid would come out the screw threads rather than the nipple. Anything other than fully seated, the fluid would come out the threads and the screw would wiggle loosely in the threaded hole. I forget what the problem was with the other returned caliper. So I do not find rebuilt calipers as being the easy route. I would rather order the kits on line and stay home and work on the task.
The best calipers I have ever dealt with were the original equipment on my '65 Ford Mustang. These particular calipers were 4 pistons for each caliper, 8 pistons total for the front and they were the most trouble free brakes I ever had. The early Ford disc brakes were very well made, but expensive to mfr. They were not a floating caliper so you did not have to worry about greasing.
For my '93 Bounder the caliper kits are no longer available because the rebuilders use a different and easier to install dust boot. They actually counterbore the top of the piston bore and use a press fit boot that can be installed after the piston is inserted. The old kits are available on eBay and that is where I go. Talking with parts suppliers apparently very few people buy caliper kits these days.
Flushing of the old fluid would certainly help avoid the stuck piston problem, which was wisely recommended by WeBRVing in the above post.

Kevin

NeilV · 07-31-2015, 03:04 AM

If the caliper got hot enough to smoke that badly then the piston boot and seal are now suspect. Also the rear axle seal can be suspect. You would have to be riding quite a while for the tire to become impacted however if they have been dragging for a while which is very likely there could already be accumulative damage to the tires and seals.

The shop made a big quality escape by failing to grease the calipers properly when they replaced the pads and all the calipers should be now checked for a similar omission.

Every two years brake fluid and coolant regardless of miles driven needs to be completely purged and replaced with fresh. If that has not been done then those services should be brought up to date.

MurphyMan · 07-31-2015, 04:18 AM

They did flush the DOT 3 brake fluid when the replaced the pads. They were unable to determine the cause of the hang up. After they pulled the wheels the caliber had already freed itself and a bit of movement was possible.

They removed the caliper and looked it over but didn't see anything they thought was unusual, then reassembled it.

We took it out for a test drive and everything seemed normal. Jim suggested I put a few more local miles on it to make sure it is okay, which I did.

There has been very good advice offered on this thread. We are going to start the trip. I think I'll buy a rebuilt caliper and keep it aboard just in case.

superlucky · 07-31-2015, 07:36 AM

With regards to my earlier post about the slides not being greased, it is a common oversight of the technician replacing the pads.
The technician will use a compression device to collapse the piston, insert new pads and place the caliper back onto the retention bracket. They don't even take the slides off! It is an easy oversight/shortcut.
Ford sells the slide parts because they get so rusty and corroded that they cannot be salvaged.
I do believe that the slide hanging up is the number one reason of a pad sticking on the Ford chassis.

I hope your brakes are now happy and that you have a safe trip.

Bill