Centramatics and tire balancing ??

[TeJay]

I realize this is a well discussed thread idea but I have 4 new questions/concerns along with some new information at least for me and to share with the forum.

Went to a local heavy truck GY (Good Year) tire store yesterday. The crew there is talented with many years of training & experience. We talked for about 30 minutes. I asked a lot of questions and based on the discussion I think I'm getting decent advice. I felt that I could trust them and have these four ideas/comments. I'd like to some corroborating evidence/opinions to help with my decision.

1. I'm aware some folks like a brand and nothing will alter their opinion. Sometimes prices are raised then dropped based on promotions so do you really save? The Top guy told me this.

There's all kinds of discounts available and even promotion deals from the manufacturers. GY had a big sale 12/2019 with about $100 off each tire. Generally speaking if you replace all 6 tires (19.5") you will spend between $2,500 and $3,500. That's taxes, balancing etc.

He said GY has new promotions coming out next week so the quoted $525 price per tire would/could be a lot lower.

2. I'm not really 100% sure which brand tire to buy. I asked about different manufacturers. His response was simple and I believe fair & honest. As long as you stick with tires from one of the top three, Bridge Stone, Good Year, or Michelin you won't go wrong. All three make a good truck tire.

I think sometimes you pay more for a name like Michelin, Snap-On etc. That may be OK because it has been synonymous with quality. Then again sometimes you do get what you pay for.

3. I asked for a recommendation and was told this. If I bought a GY RV tire which is the exact same tire we have now it is about $100 more per tire because it has extra chemicals added which reduce the suns UV ray affect. That I didn't know about the RV tire!!!

The alternate choice would be the same tire without the UV protection for $100 less per tire. It's called the "Endurance" WHY? We store the RV under cover when we are not traveling.

We have had centramatic balancers on all 4 wheels for many years. No issues except this concern came up.

4. He said computer balancing along with staggering the heavy sides of most all rims and tires I wouldn't need the Centramatics. Then he added this. Sometimes (not always) adding the centramatics after computer balancing can actually cause a vibration.

They did not say they were against centramatics just be aware of a possible vibration with both. They also mentioned centramatic is coming out with a new balancer that uses mercury instead of steel balls as the counter weight. I will call centramatics next week to get an answer on both those issues.

Many thanks for your replys.
TeJay

[MoCoTom]

I will be the first to admit I'm not a fan of Goodyear tire. I base my opinion on lack luster performance in the truck tire market which you may feel has no bearing on Rv tires, but I would contend is a similar product. Let's put it in simple terms, Penske truck leasing (largest single purchaser of class A trucks in the USA) no longer uses Goodyear tires on their fleet period. I also have an issue with the statement that you should stay with the big three tire companies. Tire brands such as Toyo and Sumitomo make excellent heavy duty tires and have the sizes needed for most Rv's. This is just one persons opinion and I'm sure others will differ
Tom

[tvp]

It's a interesting debate, on RV tires vs Truck tires
Same size......I was under the impression that RV tires have softer side walls to give a softer ride vs truck tire , but you loose side wall strength and more side wall cracking with RV tires vsTruck Tires. You hear about more side wall blowouts with RV tires then truck tires and with more sidewall cracking then Truck tires,

So is it worth giving up a little softer ride for stronger safer tires ???? You don't here about truck tires worrying about sidewall cracks or blowouts !!

[RRR]

Balance Masters are the ones that use mercury. I was surprised when I looked it up. HOW IT WORKS

With the health concerns over mercury I was rather surprised, and would be surprised if Centramatics go that way too.

[Mark_K5LXP]

Originally Posted by TeJay

Sometimes (not always) adding the centramatics after computer balancing can actually cause a vibration.

I was advised the same when I had my wheels balanced, and centramatics put on. I figured worst case I could pull the weights off myself if there was a problem.

Jury is out. After the balance and balancer install things got better but not perfect. If I take a long trip I may pull the weights and see how things change, with the idea I can reinstall the weights back to the same spots.

Noticed the other day some fluid dripping down my right front tire and I was concerned it was brake fluid but it was dripping out of the centramatic. So I guess I'll discover soon what the centramatic warranty covers. Less than 500 miles on the balancers.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

[MoCoTom]

Originally Posted by tvp

It's a interesting debate, on RV tires vs Truck tires
Same size......I was under the impression that RV tires have softer side walls to give a softer ride vs truck tire , but you loose side wall strength and more side wall cracking with RV tires vsTruck Tires. You hear about more side wall blowouts with RV tires then truck tires and with more sidewall cracking then Truck tires,

So is it worth giving up a little softer ride for stronger safer tires ???? You don't here about truck tires worrying about sidewall cracks or blowouts !!

The sidewall cracking on Rv tires is due primarily to the age and lack of use. It is very rare to see a class A owner actually need to replace tires due to tread wear. Age and effects of sun take a real toll on the rubber so it's very common for Rv tires to be 7 years old and still have 70 percent of thread remaining when varying degrees of sidewall cracking develop. Compared to my semi truck the steering tires would last about 120,000 mi, but those miles were accumulated in a 9-10 month period of time so sidewall cracking is a non issue.
Tom

[vettenuts]

My last tires were GY truck tires, but they didn’t make that particular tire when I bought my current set. I have Toyos on my other car and they are great tires so I put Toyos on the coach. They have been excellent to date. Installed unbalanced with Centramatics on all four corners. Rides nice and smooth.

[TeJay]

vettenutts,

I'm still kind of on the fence on the brand. I'll go back to that dealer the first of the week and see what the promotion prices are. How did the price of the Toyo's compare to others? I have not priced them as of yet.

The manufacturer date on the RV tires is early in 2013. The RV build date was in June 2014. The tires sat around for a year before going on the finished RV. We took possession in August 2014. Depending on how one figures it the tires are going on 7 to 8 years old.

The side walls are not not visibly cracking in the least. I annually rotated them and treated both sides 303. The tread depth is still good with 40,000 miles. With a trip of 3,000 miles planned soon I just don't think pushing it is a wise thing to do.

Thanks for your input!!

[c92vette]

A exclusive dealer for a brand, Goodyear in this case, is going to be biased towards their product. Personal experience with many types and sizes of Badyear tires prompts me to advise to stay as far away as you possibly can from the product. I've had passenger car tires be out of round, lose grip and roll over the sidewall, and wear out long before they were guaranteed to. Prorated refund on replacements but refused warranty on the out of round condition. Replaced with either Michelins or Pirelli's and all issues ceased. Had 3, count them, 3 sidewall blowouts on the coach with Badyears. Changed to Toyo's (wanted Michelins) based on the recommendation of an independent vendor and because they were the only available tires at the time. Going past 5 years and approaching 30k miles with no signs of any issues. I don't suggest Toyo tires per se but I do suggest not outfitting your coach with Badyears.

Balancing shouldn't be an issue with any tires that are installed provided they are installed correctly. I use Dyna Beads in all the tires on the coach and the tow dolly. I do not notice any ride or vibration issues. Tire wear on both the coach and dolly does not show any balancing problems. Centramatics should do a good job keeping any tire balanced. If the tire wheel assembly is in balance before Centramatics are installed the balancer will be neutralized. There should be no vibration. What wasn't said was as tires wear balance is compromised. All the initial balancing by a computer is moot by the time 20k miles are put on the tires. Balancing beads and or Centramatics compensate for that. Rotational speed plays a role as well. The larger the wheel size the lower the revolutions for each mile. A 19" wheel and tire assembly rotates approximately 650 revolutions. A 17" assembly is closer to 700 revolutions and a 22" assembly rotates 580 revolutions per mile. Lower revolutions at speed allows larger tolerance in weight distribution imperfections.

[TeJay]

I checked on Toyo tires this morning and they are considered by the store I went to as being kind of the middle of the road tire. It was also said that sometimes the better tires are also price inflated by the name instead of that much of a better tire. Paying for the name and quality at the same time.

The Toyo tires were at least $165 each under the GY tires. That's close to $1,000 less than a set of GY.

I called Centrimatics and was told this. No they are not looking at using mercury in their balancers.

Will adding them to a computer balanced tire cause issues? They recommend not using any wheel weights if using Centramatic balancers. In fact after we installed the CB's I took all the weights off and they have been fine over the next 35,000 miles.

I will ask for any dealer who does the install that they spin the tires even if they are not going to balance them to determine how far out of balance they might be. If one is going to take a large amount of weights to get into balance then don't use that tire. I will also check to see if they are aware of the heavy and light side of each tire and rim. Then I will take a test run to make sure they are balanced before leaving the shop.

I'm getting close to make a decision thanks to the responses. Many thanks!!!!

[StephenW]

Tejay, I replaced my Goodyears with Toyo M143 245/19.5 R70 H tires and have put about 15k miles on them in 2 years, including a 5200 mile trip out west. They run smooth, quiet and track very well. Mine are spin balanced, 20,500# 2006 F53 chassis, dolly-towing a Ford Taurus. Very happy with the Toyos.

[TeJay]

StephenW,

Thanks for the report. That gives me some hope since I did get some reports against the GY tires. I well remember the Firestone 500 fiasco. These tire companies do screw things up from time to time. Nobody is perfect.

I think I'm going to go with the Toyo tires as well. There may be some a bit better but why pay for the name if you don't have to.

The place I went to showed me the tires and I asked if they could get tires made in 2020 instead of 2019. They initially said yes but their computers were down so they couldn't promise but we do have a few weeks. It was a major electrical issue so I'm not sure when they will be back in business. I'll check back in a day or two.

Your tires were H rated. Did you get the 16 ply or 14 ply. I'm guessing 16 ply would be H rated. I had the choice to go with the 16 and asked if it would ride rougher or stiffer. His response was that I wouldn't know the difference. Tougher sidewall I believe would be better generally all around.

[vettenuts]

One potential warning on Toyos, mine smelled like cow poop for a while. Don’t know why but I still like the tires.

[TeJay]

I don't believe I have to sleep with them so it should be OK!! Been around some cow dung before. It's not that bad!! Thanks for the warning.