Community Forums

p12 · 08-29-2010, 06:20 PM

I believe you are misdiagnosing your success, so I thought I'd throw my two cents in:

I completely believe that the roll has been limited, but do not believe it is due to the shorter moment arm on the sway bar.

Typically you set up a sway bar for the links to be at 90* to the bar (..well an imaginary line from the link pivot to the sway bar pivot) to keep the loading on the bar as purely torsional as possible. If you had the links at 180* with the bar you would be pulling directly on the mounts. In between 180* and 90* you go from loading the bar torsionally to putting the arms in tension and pulling on the mounts. If you have much more than a subtle improvement as you've suggested, I would expect to find that you are in fact loading the mount some. Is it too much? I don't know. The way to tell if I'm right is if the sway increases when longer end links are tried.

Either way, good luck and happy travels.

jcthorne · 08-30-2010, 06:24 AM

Just an update.

I purchased and installed the Hellwig adjustable endlinks to help with the percieved geometry problem.

Actually the factory end links are not at 90deg with the suspension level and loaded.

Installed the end links and adjusted to near stock angle or slightly closer to 90. Took the coach for a drive, some curves and freeway ramps. Could not tell much difference from the factory end links in the shorter arm mounting position. A bit of an improvement perhaps but not worse or less effect from the sway bar. Still not at 90deg to the bar but much closer and actually better than the stock angle. Could have adjusted to exactly match the stock angle but did not feel like unbolting to move the bar 3 to 5 deg. The Hellwig adjustable endlinks fit perfectly and are much stronger in construction and mounting hardware than the factory links so I'll leave them and consider the mod complete for now.

End result, the shorter moment arm mounting position for the end links makes a significant improvement in sway and roll for very few dollars invested.

p12 · 08-30-2010, 06:45 AM

Good to hear. I'll fab up some longer links and give it a try.

SAS30 · 08-31-2010, 08:05 AM

JCThorne, Can you post a photo of your unit with the new links installed? Wanting to make this change to my Dolphin 5320 on '07 F53, 22K, but have been waiting for someone to install longer links to make the mod complete.
Thanks, Andy Smith

Luv2go · 08-31-2010, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAS30

JCThorne, Can you post a photo of your unit with the new links installed? Wanting to make this change to my Dolphin 5320 on '07 F53, 22K, but have been waiting for someone to install longer links to make the mod complete.
Thanks, Andy Smith

Also, can you confirm that you ordered Hellwig 7962 - Hellwig Suspension Components - Overview - SummitRacing.com for your 22K chassis, did Summit need more info to make sure they sent you the right links?

Thanks,
Stewart

jcthorne · 09-01-2010, 08:00 AM

Yes, I ordered the Hellwig 7962 adjustable end links but did not order them from Summit. Amazon had them for about $25 cheaper once shipping was considered and had them in stock to ship.

I'll shoot a photo from the same angle as the stock links photo I already posted and post it as soon as I get a chance.

burgiebill · 09-14-2010, 09:02 PM

I am wanting to see the photos. Hows everything working. bill

WOODYDEL · 09-14-2010, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p12

I believe you are misdiagnosing your success, so I thought I'd throw my two cents in:

I completely believe that the roll has been limited, but do not believe it is due to the shorter moment arm on the sway bar.

Typically you set up a sway bar for the links to be at 90* to the bar (..well an imaginary line from the link pivot to the sway bar pivot) to keep the loading on the bar as purely torsional as possible. If you had the links at 180* with the bar you would be pulling directly on the mounts. In between 180* and 90* you go from loading the bar torsionally to putting the arms in tension and pulling on the mounts. If you have much more than a subtle improvement as you've suggested, I would expect to find that you are in fact loading the mount some. Is it too much? I don't know. The way to tell if I'm right is if the sway increases when longer end links are tried.

Either way, good luck and happy travels.

jcthorne's idea had a flaw but with the longer link restoring the location of the sway bar there should not be a problem. It was Ford who designed the swaybar location not jcthorne. I'm not about to second guess Ford on wether 90 degrees or 75 degrees makes any difference. In the original location the sway bar arms have freedom to move up and down.

All of the Ford F53 chassis frames are the same. There is no other place to squeeze in the top mount for the link. Unless it were mounted lower than the frame bottom.

There's something you guys can't see or haven't noticed. Ford located the ends of the sway bars with links long enough to be approximately level with itself. By using a too long bar would push the ends too low. Too long link bars will be more likely to flex unless beefed up considerably. 12 inch bars are the correct length to level the sway bar.

jcthorne · 09-14-2010, 11:41 PM

I did not admit a mistake as I did not make one. As I told you in my reply to your PM, I tried the longer links solely because of all the bickering in this thread and they were cheap enough to be worth a curiosity check.

The longer links did nothing to change the handling. The stock links did not bind in the new mounting location. Others are still running the stock links. I posted the part number for the Helwig links I used. They were in stock and well built for the longer length. Did not spend time researching a specific length link from other OEM sources. And FYI 12" was NOT the correct length to level the sway bar. (just coincidence as level is not required, just the working geometry) They are not 'level' in the stock location either.

Sorry Woodydel, this was not your idea, (not mine either if you look back at the begining of the thread) not your fix and others here have clearly seen your 'sky is falling' remarks for what they are. Some folks here TRY and DO, others post arguments on the internet using junk theory and reasoning. If you dont want to use this improvement, please go ahead and don't use it.

I have not posted the new photo yet as I am in Europe with my wife and will not be near the coach until next weekend to take the pic. Have not driven the coach since installing the links and test driving it.

jmckinley · 09-15-2010, 01:16 AM

JCThorne is right. He didn't start this thread, I did. And at this point I am the only one with enough mileage (8,000 miles) with the links in the short holes to speak to the durability of the modification. To sum it up: sway is dramatically reduced, nothing has broken, my wife hasn't been turned into a pillar of stone and the Swaybar Police haven't drug me from my bed in the middle of the night for tampering with Lord Motor Company's flawless engineering.

At this point, Woodydel keeps on whining that this mod can not possibly work (In his not so humble opinion) while he hasn't even been willing to spend an hour trying it out. To make matters worse, he has basically accused me and JCThorne of lying about our experiences with the mod. What he doesn't know is that others have tried it and like it as evidenced by private emails that I've recieved, some of which were from real engineers with real experience in suspension design and development.

burgiebill · 09-15-2010, 10:26 PM

why were all the pictures woodydel posted deleted?

jcthorne · 09-15-2010, 11:07 PM

because woodydel decided he no longer wanted to share them. They were hosted on his photobucket account.

burgiebill · 09-16-2010, 05:35 PM

OH come on Woodydel put the pictures back, i enjoyed them. bill

Bedwards · 09-16-2010, 07:21 PM

Hello everyone,
Looks like a couple of you have put on quite a few miles with this fix and good results so I decided to try it. I did the front by lengthening the links about 2 inches. This put the bar close to the stock location when parked and no jacks on the ground. Not saying it needed it, just decided to do it that way. Mine is a 2000 F53 22500 GVW if I remember correctly. Mine has the added bracket that looks like it helps support the bolt going thru the link and bar, I had to notch it a little so the link wouldn't hit it when I raised the front suspension all the way up till the wheels came off the ground. I probably could have just left it off, but since it was on it I wanted to kept using it.
The back I had a little problem with. The angle didn't seem to bad between the link and rear bar, so I went ahead and just moved it to the other hole. I was going to have to notch the bracket like I did on the front but I also noticed when I lowered the jacks all the way to get the rear suspension to fully extend, the sway bar was hitting the diff housing where it curves around it at the bottom. I ended up lengthening the rear links 1 inch. Now the bar just touches the bottom of the diff. The reason I didn't go any longer was that the bar would also need more room to pivot the other way when the suspension fully compresses or bottoms out. Didn't know how to bottom out the rear to check bar clearance so I measured the distance between the rubber bottom out bumper (jounce pad) and where it would contact the axle housing without the jacks on the ground. It was about 2-3/4 inches. I unbolted the bar from both links and pulled the bar down about the same distance from the link and I have around a 1/2 inch of clearance between the bar and a bolt on the diff at the bottom (one of the carrier mounting bolts). It should be okay now. Sorry about the long post but I thought it was worth mentioning the rear bar having clearance issues, at least for me anyways. Also, I hope everyone is using a jack stand when going under if you have it raised with your leveling jacks. Probably be a couple of weeks before I get a chance to try it out and see the improvement you guys are talking about. Thanks,

Bill