Cheap Handling Fix

[Luv2go]

Originally Posted by TeJay

rv cruiser,

Over the many years of this thread many experienced issues when using the Helwig links. I never used them so I'm not speaking from experience. I'm only reporting what I have read on this thread. The problem was a mismatch between Fords stock link bolts/bushings and what Helwing provided. The looseness or mismatch caused clunking noises.

Since these issues occurred some time ago maybe Helwig fixed it or maybe the owners determined what to do to correct it. Just be aware if you hear noises when experiencing greater than normal amounts of sway such as going into or out of service stations with greater than normal uneven road surfaces it maybe the links.

I was one of those owners. We had to replace the bushing sleeves with the Ford sleeves and use the Ford bolts. Others pressed out the whole bushing and used the Ford bushings, sleeves and bolts. IIRC some even drilled out the sleeves to the correct diameter for the Ford bolts.

What happened to us was the Hellwig sleeves crumpled at the ends as the smaller bolts allowed part of the sleeve to be pushed into the bolt hole (or washer ID, can't remember which) in the sway bar when it moved. I never could keep the required torque (66 ft lb) and had clunking noises.

Had no issues once I replaced the sleeves.

[rv_cruiser]

Originally Posted by TeJay

rv cruiser,

Over the many years of this thread many experienced issues when using the Helwig links. I never used them so I'm not speaking from experience. I'm only reporting what I have read on this thread. The problem was a mismatch between Fords stock link bolts/bushings and what Helwing provided. The looseness or mismatch caused clunking noises.

Since these issues occurred some time ago maybe Helwig fixed it or maybe the owners determined what to do to correct it. Just be aware if you hear noises when experiencing greater than normal amounts of sway such as going into or out of service stations with greater than normal uneven road surfaces it maybe the links.

Thanks for the tips, TeJay and Luv2go! I kept all of the stock parts in case I need to do the same. The Hellwig links seemed to fit very well.

I've driven about 30 miles but didn't notice any odd noises from that area, but I will listen more intently next drive I take.

[Joe A]

Originally Posted by chboone

Two words, Koni Shocks. Replaced Bilstein's that had less then 5,000 miles on them with Koni. With the Bilstein's felt like all the overhead cabinets were going to come down every time we ran over a crack in the road. With Koni ride is much smoother.

Which one ,FSD or EVO99 ? Thanks

[EJG]

I repositioned the front sway bar to the inner holes using the stock links just before leaving on our current trip. We left El Dorado Hills, CA 6/10 and went to OR, ID, UT and now at Mesa Verde, CO. Over 1600 miles in 17 days on interstate, rough country roads and windy bumpy mountain roads. The ride is radically improvd
Eliminated the sway when passing or being passed by semi trucks or trailers in either direction.
Amazing. Should have done it sooner

[EJG]

2015 Winnebago Vista class A 26E pulling a 2018 Jeep Wrangler 2 dr

[TeJay]

Joe A,

The Koni FSD shocks do the best job in most folks opinion. That said we still don't know or have at our disposal many choices for a shock absorber tuned to the weight capacity of every chassis. We know this because most shock companies list 1 shock for all weight chassis.

That's an F-53 chassis of 16,000 lbs, through the 26,000 lbs chassis. How can one shock work equally well given the weight spread?? That IMHO makes absolutely no sense.

Just recently I decided to do as some others have done and added another shock to our front. We've taken one somewhat short trip and it seems to be working with better sway control. As expected since there's 4 shocks on the front and more dampening the system is potentially harsher. I didn't feel that happened. It was only about a total of a 300 mile trip. My final opinion is still a work in progress.

First I was told my shock mounts would no hold. On the initial trip nothing happened as was predicted. The roads were not real bad so perhaps if I encountered some real harsh conditions a mount would or could break or bend. I'm looking at strengthening it in some way.

Most posters on this forum would automatically state with 4 shocks on the front it has to be much harsher. What if the stock or even aftermarket Koni shock was inadequate or just not the correct tune for the weight chassis to begin with why assume that adding another would then make the RV ride much harsher. So far I didn't think is was harsh.

Just another possible MOD and food for thought.

[cptxguys]

Originally Posted by EJG

I repositioned the front sway bar to the inner holes using the stock links just before leaving on our current trip. We left El Dorado Hills, CA 6/10 and went to OR, ID, UT and now at Mesa Verde, CO. Over 1600 miles in 17 days on interstate, rough country roads and windy bumpy mountain roads. The ride is radically improvd
Eliminated the sway when passing or being passed by semi trucks or trailers in either direction.
Amazing. Should have done it sooner

I did the same and also wished the same thing.

Added plates to the links and that too made a big difference. You can read about it on the https://www.irv2.com/forums/f23/atte...ad-305445.html thread

[hohenwald48]

Originally Posted by rv_cruiser

Thanks guys. Just trying to make sure I know what I'm doing before I jump in to the deep end.

Be careful following advice found on internet forums. It seems that a lot of folks on here refuse to understand that Ford made some suspension changes in recent years that can cause all kinds of interference that did not exist on older chassis. Just because it worked on a 2015 or whatever doesn't mean it will work on a newer chassis.

[TeJay]

Yes Ford did make a change in the brackets around 2016 or maybe 2017. Any chassis prior to then there were few issues when doing the CHF. No need to do anything to Fords newest chassis so we are talking maybe 3-4 years of difficult CHF chassis.

If you don't have the tools and or skills then don't attempt the CHF.

Ford used a serrated bolt in the Z-bracket making it difficult to get the bolt separated from the bracket. No it wasn't as easy to perform the CHF as with the older Z-brackets but some/many figured it out and were able to do the CHF but with more work. Since I have not seen the change I can't tell you what needed to be done to get it to work. I guess some were able to handle the change easier than others. That's the differences in mechanical skill levels. Some can and others can't.

We are well aware how aftermarket SB can be better. We also are aware of the much higher cost per axle like in the $500 to $600 plus range. Over the years some have added them and were pleased with the results. Others reported the new SB wasn't much different. As it turned out the diameter of the new SB was the same as the stock SB. That's what happens if an owner does not know what to look for when buying something. Ask the question will it be better than stock and if so WHY?

The CHF was called the CHF because it did improve the sway control measurable as reported by at least 98% of owners and for little effort or cost.

WHY FORD made the change in the Z-bracket is anybodies guess. Over the 10 years of the CHF thread if you can find a report concerning an issue with the link connection and the SB that can be attributed to a weakness in that connection please refer me to the post number since I don't remember reading anything about it.

Add to that the way Ford was so inconsistent in the use of the Z-bracket it's no wonder folks are confused. First they added something that nobody saw any real need for then they changed it over the last few years making it difficult to do the CHF.

When they did have a real issue with the rear SB brackets bolts coming loose starting on the 1999 on up through units into 2017, 2018 and later. That almost 20 year old issue was all but ignored by FORD. No notification nor any TSB. If by some chance the bracket broke while still under warranty and if you took it to Ford they usually fixed it.

[hohenwald48]

Originally Posted by TeJay

Ford used a serrated bolt in the Z-bracket making it difficult to get the bolt separated from the bracket. No it wasn't as easy to perform the CHF as with the older Z-brackets but some/many figured it out and were able to do the CHF but with more work. Since I have not seen the change I can't tell you what needed to be done to get it to work. I guess some were able to handle the change easier than others. That's the differences in mechanical skill levels. Some can and others can't.

Just so you fully understand, the changes Ford made were more significant than simply using a serrated bolt in the Z-bracket. At least on the 26K chassis.

I again warn folks to be cautious of taking advice on the internet. Especially from folks who have never worked on the newer chassis. What worked on the older chassis won't necessarily work as well on a newer chassis.

[Luv2go]

How about posting the chassis the CHF did not work for, with year, type (GVWR), wheelbase, and what the issue was. For example, I read on this thread that on some chassis Ford used a curved link which made the CHF much more difficult. Knowing what the issue and chassis were and what the resolution (if any) would help prospective users quite a bit.

[HarryStone]

Originally Posted by hohenwald48

Just so you fully understand, the changes Ford made were more significant than simply using a serrated bolt in the Z-bracket. At least on the 26K chassis.

I again warn folks to be cautious of taking advice on the internet. Especially from folks who have never worked on the newer chassis. What worked on the older chassis won't necessarily work as well on a newer chassis.

Why not then, take a few minutes and tell the forum exactly what changes were done to the newer chassis?

[hohenwald48]

Originally Posted by HarryStone

Why not then, take a few minutes and tell the forum exactly what changes were done to the newer chassis?

Because I have no way of knowing all the changes made or when they were made and have no intention in getting into a long drawn out discussion on the topic. On a 26K 2018 chassis there are several interference issues with the front suspension if the links aren't extended and the rear anti-sway bar will contact the pumpkin and possibly the eBrake drum if the links aren't properly extended. When using the TeJay plates there are additional interference issues and misalignment's.

I've posted (probably in this thread) about it in the past. If you take a few minutes to search I'm sure you can find those posts.

My solution was to put everything back the way Ford built it and to put the TeJay plates in my parts bin in the shop in case I find a use for them in the future.

If you intend to do the CHF on a newer chassis (I have no idea what year the changes started) be aware there may be problems that didn't exist on previous chassis years.

[rv_cruiser]

Originally Posted by hohenwald48

Just so you fully understand, the changes Ford made were more significant than simply using a serrated bolt in the Z-bracket. At least on the 26K chassis.

I have a 2019 18k chassis. No serrated bolts on mine. In case anyone is tracking.