Community Forums

Rpwainc · 05-08-2016, 07:04 PM

Totally agree jmckinley. Did the rear SB today, but won't get to try it for awhile. Thanks again.

A2tanker · 05-09-2016, 10:16 AM

John/TeJay,

So I did just the rear CHF about a month ago, while waiting for the Helwig links for the front. Seemed to make a difference. Yesterday I finished the fronts and the difference is dramatic. Thanks for the advice.

My question is tied to the bushings from the old links and the ones supplied by Helwig. The bushings in my old links were way too big to fit in the Helwig links. So I used the supplied bolts. I seem to remember reading previously that the Helwig bolts were too small, but the fitment seems to be pretty good and the bolts provided seemed to be hardened more than the factory bolts.

What issues do you see with this setup?

2015 Tiffin Allegro Open Road 36LA
"Enterprise"

rippa · 05-09-2016, 03:19 PM

The bolts that came with the Hellwig links are a little smaller in diameter than originals. I used the Hellwig bushings but the factory sleeves and bolts so they would fit better in the sway bar and frame. Some reported a noise with the Hellwig bolts. Could be from the smaller diameter bolt "moving around" in the larger diameter hole on sway bar and frame. Easy to push out the Hellwig sleeve and press in the original sleeve into Hellwig bushing. Then use the original bolts for snug fit. Not sure which bolt is harder.

2015terra · 05-09-2016, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmckinley

2015terra forgot Step 11 of the Cheap Handling Fix.

(11) To express your undying gratitude, send generous check or other nice gift to the CHF Inventor.

John McKinley
Genius Inventor, CHF

Thanks for not just thinking about the CHF
,but for it doing and posting the results.
Also thanks to TeJAY for promotion of the fix.

jmckinley · 05-09-2016, 04:36 PM

Definitely thanks to TeJay for carrying the banner. He has a lot more patience than I do. Dunner was the first banner carrier, always ready to defend the CHF from naysayers. Dunner unfortunately passed away and there was no champion until TeJay came along.

TeJay · 05-10-2016, 07:41 AM

Well many thanks to all for the kind words. It's been my pleasure to support the CHF.

This is early morning on post foot surgery day #5. The first two days were absolute chaos. I'm thankful because at age 72 this is only my first rodeo with surgery. Not looking forward to others either. I only took 1/3 of my addicting drugs but it was still very rough going. The kind words do help to built up the spirits.

Still have a big trip planned from AR to ME with one stop in John McKinley's neck of the woods to meet & visit with the Genius inventor, his DW and the AF Museum in Dayton, OH. No exact dates yet John but sometime the first weeks of July. Our first scheduled CG date in ME is 7/16.

On to the Helwig links versus stock bushings. It is my understanding that the Helwig link bushings and bolts are a bit smaller than Ford Stock bolts and bushings? So if one installs the Helwig links you can't use the larger Ford bolts because they will not fit into the smaller Helwig bushings?

You have two options: 1. Use the smaller Helwig bolts with the larger stock Ford, and they are (poly) bushings. That may result in a loose fit and as reported some clunking. To avoid the clunking always make sure that all bolts are torqued to 66 Ft/Lbs and add blue loc-tite as a safety measure.

2. Option: The stock Ford (larger bushing sleeve) can be pressed out and pressed into the Helwig links replacing the smaller sleeve with the stock Ford larger one for a correct fit between bolts and link holes and the SB holes.

If an owner had the know how to swap sleeves the second option is the best. The link is adjustable keeping the SB closer to or level and the bolt fit is correct avoiding any looseness anywhere in the set up.

When I installed adjustable plates to the SB ends I used GRADE 10, 1/2"-D SAE bolts. The SB holes were just a tad to small and it was very difficult to drill the holes. That is hardened spring steel. I could have bought metric bolts the same size as supplied by Ford but I had some in stock and only had to buy a couple. I also had already drilled the plates to 1/2".

I'm not a machinist and don't have a milling machine so I can accurately locate (3" center to center) when drilling holes but when I do that chore I always measure with a digital caliper, center punch, pilot hole and the specifically located holes are almost never exact. So drilling with a 1/2" drill (slightly larger than the stock metric bolts) is preferred to exact sized metric holes because I know I will be close to matching the hole spacing.

I know clear as mud.

Thanks,
TeJay

FLHTC3 · 05-10-2016, 08:51 AM

On my 2011 22k chassis I drilled out the Hellwig metal sleeves so I could reuse the OEM Ford bolts and bushings, this lasted several years and about 25k miles until I had the original links lengthened about 2" and replaced the rubber bushings with neoprene.

jmckinley · 05-10-2016, 11:10 AM

Good luck with your recovery, TeJay. Looking forward to seeing you and Mrs. TeJay this summer.

Luv2go · 05-11-2016, 03:04 AM

Good luck on your recovery, TeJay! I had hernia surgery yesterday (my third and hopefully last), haven't yet taken the addictive pain reliever (knock on wood).

I was one of the ones who did both options number 1 and number 2.

With option 1 it was very hard to keep the 66 foot-pounds torque and when I removed the old sleeves they had slipped under the washers and were crushed. The RV was making the creaking noises all the time.

On to option 2. To change the bushings I used a deep socket that just fit the bushing diameter and gently tapped the original bushing out of the Ford link, then pressed it into the Helwig bushing with a vise. Assembled using the Ford hardware, torqued to 66 foot pounds and have not had a problem since.

MrTrouble · 05-11-2016, 07:33 AM

Wow, this thread has been carrying on for 6 years now...LOL... I actually came on this morning looking for other information and happened on this thread. I have now been reading for well over an hour. Thanks for the great info.

I have a '99 Fleetwood Southwind 36Z, F53, 22K chassis. I will have to take a look underneath to see if I have the extra set of holes... I've seen a couple of posts that say some of the older RV's only have one set of holes. Hopefully I don't fall into this category. I race motorcycles and every track I go to is in the middle of nowhere, requiring lots of back road travel while pulling a trailer. Any assistance in the anti-sway arena are tremendously welcomed. It'll be a week or so before I can get to my coach, as it is stored about 15 miles away and life will keep me away from it for a while.

If I have the setup to do it, looks like a no-brainer to me.

Thanks for the great info.

Juan

TeJay · 05-11-2016, 09:13 AM

Juan,

I believe the F-53 chassis came on board either late 97, or 98 but for sure by 99. Knowing exactly when is always a guess. Seeing is believing.

As with most of the industry they can change mid year so it is possible you don't have two holes. If you do then as you say it is a no-brainer. if you only have 1 horizontal hole you can still do a modified CHF with an additional (DIY) bracket. If and when you determine what you have let me know and I can point you to the exact post on the CHf thread that shows you how to do the CHF when only one horizontal hole is present. Send me a PM (private message)

TeJay

VetPartTimer · 05-11-2016, 05:43 PM

Anyone know what Ford's take on the CHF is?

Seems to me if the handling is so much better that Ford would have set it there in the first place.

I'd like to do this fix myself, just curious what Ford's take on this is.

IdahoSRT10 · 05-11-2016, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VetPartTimer

Anyone know what Ford's take on the CHF is?

Seems to me if the handling is so much better that Ford would have set it there in the first place.

I'd like to do this fix myself, just curious what Ford's take on this is.

I don't think Ford is keen on the idea of having the front tires coming off the ground so easily after the CHF. I'd guess the CHF limits the front suspension travel by 40%. Many will get a harsher ride because it changes the geometry of the links.

I did the CHF on my F-53 but corrected the link angle back to stock.

jmckinley · 05-11-2016, 09:08 PM

Not to be a poopyhead here, but who cares what Ford thinks about the CHF? Ford installs the same anti sway bars on 16000# and 24000# chassis. That alone should give you a hint about how much thought went into the situation. But, a few thousand posts back you'll find posts about people who found someone at Ford who said it was OK. You'll also find posts from people who said they talked to someone at Ford who said it wasn't OK. It's a big company, there's no telling who they talked to. I worked in Ford Truck Engineering; not everyone there was smart or knowledgeable. If you talk to someone there, you have a fairly good chance that they have no idea what they're talking about.

Bottom line, hundreds of people have done the CHF with no ill effects and no reported failures. Only a handful have reported a harsher ride. The rest have been happy with the improvement.

Here's the deal: It takes 30 minutes to do the fronts. It costs nothing. Try it, if you don't like it it takes 30 minutes to undo it and you're back to stock. You've only lost an hour of your life and no money. Based on the experience of those who've tried it, the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of you seeing a noticeable improvement.

No need to overthink this whole thing. People need to quit looking this gift horse in the mouth.

End of rant.

TeJay, you can have the banner back.

John McKinley