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donr103 · 09-18-2021, 09:09 PM

Ho.. just saw air intake.. you can do so much better there.. I put 2 spectra. Round air cleaner on.. man.. big difference there too.. good work guys.. keep us posted

TT_Vert · 09-20-2021, 07:14 PM

Man this EGR code is kicking the crap out of me. I'm about out of ideas.
I put a new EVR in just to see if perhaps I wasn't getting the right amount of vacuum ( I usually was seeing 3.5 to 5 ish" Hg) out of the EVR to the EGR valve. I was still getting the 332 so I then back probed the EVP and saw that at the vacuum I normally see during the KOER test (3-5ish) the resistance wasn't moving a great deal (About 500ohms resistance at 4psi) but it probably was enough. I decided to pull the EGR to ensure the EGR was moving it's full range (it did and smoothly). it was clean as a whistle in there (Clean for a ford EGR valve at least). Put it back together and watched the EGR diaphragm during test (While also monitoring vacuum). During some tests I didn't appear to get much vacuum (.(1-2" Hg) other times I would see up to 7-8" Hg. On the tests where the vacuum to the EGR valve was higher the code wasn't there. I even went ahead once and deadheaded vacuum into a gauge and applied vacuum to egr manually and the test passed telling me the EGR signal wire to ECM is good. I then double checked duty cycle of the EVR and it's getting 95% duty cycle for about 2 seconds at the end of the test which is where it always has been. So in synopsis

* Duty cycle to EVR good during KOER test
* Voltage to EVR good (12V)
* Source vacuum to EVR good (22")
* Both EVRs coils ohm out around 35 ohms
* Both EVRs exhibit the same behavior when applying vacuum to ports with and without coil energized. I'm half tempted to plug the vent of the EVR and run a test and see what happens w/ vacuum to EGR.
* Resistance through range of EVP good
* Source voltage to EVP good (4.85V)
* EGR opens smoothly and holds a vacuum
* Every hose holds a perfect vacuum
* I can manually pass test by applying vacuum to EGR at appropriate time.

I'm really running out of ideas here. The fact that the vacuum applied varies during some KOER EGR system test really baffles me. Duty cycle is the same but when the vacuum does come in it ramps up slowly (That may be by design of the EVR and it's venting system).

subford · 09-21-2021, 05:04 AM

Sounds like either a bad EVR or wiring and connectors between the EVR and the PCM.
Need to monitor the wire between the EVR and the PCM.

The EGR Vacuum Regulator (EVR) controls the opening and closing of the EGR valve. The EVR is an electromagnetic solenoid and should have between 20-70 ohms resistance between the pins. +12volts should be constant on one side from the EEC Relay, the computer controls the ground signal when EGR flow is needed.
When the EGR Vacuum Regulator (EVR) is off, both ports vent slowly to atsmophere.
To test it mechanically check to see if vacuum is present at the EGR valve with the electrical connector unplugged from the EVR. The top port should not have vacuum! Because that would open the EGR at the wrong times.
With everything connected and the engine running ground out the pin 33 side. The EGR vavle should open and the engine RPM should change.
Ford EGR valves will open 50% at 4 inHg of vacuum, and 100% at 8 inHg of vacuum.

Possible causes:
•Damaged EVR regulator.
•Corroded or dirty connector
•Faulty Vacuum system.
•Broken wire in harness.
•Grounded harness.
•Damaged Computer.

/

donr103 · 09-21-2021, 09:57 AM

I am trying one more guess.. I mean guess.. I had to trace all vac lines to smog solenoid once.. . there are 3.. 2 smog pump 1 egr.. they have one common feed at the bottom.. I would trace that back to manifold.. check carefully for splitting in plastic line.. check vac at manifold tap.. see if that is problem..
I found .. we don't have same system.. just similar.. ok.. I found the rubber vac line to charcoal canister badly split.. I know different sub system but had bad vac leak when computer started turning on canister purge valve.. so carefully check canister vac lines.. if leaking.. that could cause big vac drop.. the canister vac line were just crumbling.. I had one that comes off rear on eng.. yours is probably different.. could come off front pass side.. but idea is just check all the way to canister..
Just a guess.. totally un-related..
Good luck and keep us posted.. I will keep guessing coming.. maybe someone will actually lead you in right direction..

TT_Vert · 09-21-2021, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subford

Sounds like either a bad EVR or wiring and connectors between the EVR and the PCM.
Need to monitor the wire between the EVR and the PCM.

The EGR Vacuum Regulator (EVR) controls the opening and closing of the EGR valve. The EVR is an electromagnetic solenoid and should have between 20-70 ohms resistance between the pins. +12volts should be constant on one side from the EEC Relay, the computer controls the ground signal when EGR flow is needed.
When the EGR Vacuum Regulator (EVR) is off, both ports vent slowly to atsmophere.
To test it mechanically check to see if vacuum is present at the EGR valve with the electrical connector unplugged from the EVR. The top port should not have vacuum! Because that would open the EGR at the wrong times.
With everything connected and the engine running ground out the pin 33 side. The EGR vavle should open and the engine RPM should change.
Ford EGR valves will open 50% at 4 inHg of vacuum, and 100% at 8 inHg of vacuum.

Possible causes:
•Damaged EVR regulator.
•Corroded or dirty connector
•Faulty Vacuum system.
•Broken wire in harness.
•Grounded harness.
•Damaged Computer.

/

Yeah i thought bad EVR too but just threw one in last night, no luck. Today I went ahead and ran a few more tests which seem to get me no further ahead than were I was but a step is a step at this point. I checked voltage that goes to ECM from EVP. I'm seeing full voltage between VREF/EVP terminals w/ EGR closed and it dwindles as EGR opens. Exact numbers to follow.
At zero vacuum (EGR closed) I see 4.53 Vdc (Engine is off/ignition on so voltage may be a hair low)
At 4" Hg I see 2.10 Vdc
at 8" Hg I see .632 Vdc (EGR fully open)
I also went ahead and pulled the EVR and applied vacuum to the manifold vacuum side of it while checked vacuum out of it (Which would go to EGR). With the solenoid energized I am seeing vacuum pass through fine and with it off it vents as it should. So the EVR is working. I've confirmed earlier during KOER tests that at end of test I'm seeing 95% duty cycle to the EVR so it's getting energized as designed I then went ahead and connected the hose to the EGR and energized the EVR while monitoring the EGR valve. It moves as it should so that part of the system is working. Also as stated above I have checked not only output voltage of EVP to ECU but also the resistance of the EVP through it's range. (With EGR fully closed I see 3.7K ohms (no vacuum) and 850 ohms w/ EGR fully opened (Vacuum applied). This all checks out fine and this system should be working.

I know for a fact the data to the ECM is good as one of the tests I did yesterday was remove vacuum host from EVR to the EGR and during KOER monitored the PWM of the EVR. As soon as it started the test and PWM went up to 95% i applied vacuum to EGR and the code went away. This tells me that not only is the EVP and EGR it also tells me that all related wiring for the EVP to and from the ECM is good. I hope this makes sense.

Dave

donr103 · 09-21-2021, 10:30 AM

Another crappie guess.. when is last time you changed TPS? Could e cm get wrong reference from tps and set .. egr code? Does egr get reference from tps? Just confusing here I know but again for anybody reading this.. just grasping at straws.. keep at it there has to be an answer.. also.. I know you checked wiring.. but just try this.. put battery jumper cable.. use negative.. and put one end on negative of battery and one directly on eng.. just to recheck that grounds are not issue.. just stupid thought.. you have done so much.. you got to be close..

TT_Vert · 09-21-2021, 12:00 PM

PROBLEM SOVLED!

Well I've never seen this in all my years. My fatal flaw was assuming if I had vacuum I'd have flow which obviously is not correct or even logical* The actual 90 deg. fitting into the EGR had the plastic hose all the way up against the rubber elbow. I always thought these were barbed and pressed into the rubber elbow but I could not pull it out to trim it. My guess is it got hot and it somehow was pressed into the rubber and it just stayed there. It wasn't budging but I cannot think the factory would have let it leave like that, not to mention there would have been CELs when the EGR was called for and no movement of EVP was detected. This explains why sometimes I'd get vacuum and others I wouldn't. Also why the vacuum varied. If I bent the elbow in certain ways air would flow through. My guess is when vacuum was applied it was just sealing the hose to the rubber elbow tighter than a drum most times. Oddly when I monitored the voltage sent to ECU from EVP during KOER it only changed maybe .2V which is very little movement. My guess is the ECU just wants to see some movement from the base voltage to determine the EGR is at least moving a little bit. This probably kept them from getting tons of warranty claims due to EGR dirtiness, stickiness etc. Even the smallest change in EVP voltage is enough to keep the ECU happy. So this is what has probably cost me 8 hours of my life. It only took me 2 seconds and a 3/16" drill bit, good thing I don't get paid by the job!!

donr103 · 09-21-2021, 05:12 PM

Great job!!!!! I could feel from here you were so close. Nice picture.. good luck on next job..

NeilV · 09-23-2021, 09:16 PM

One of Fords Brighter Ideas, glad you got it sorted out.

Those plastic lines however do fail quite often and will be in the process of splitting along their length where the extrusion die closed the gap as the hot plastic went through. You may find additional issues related to lengths of that tubing having that seam rotted from exposure to light. Also check behind the front cross rails behind the front bumper/fascia for accumulator tanks(rectangular bricks) where the rubber coupler tubing has failed. One sign of the trouble being more generically this tubing in the process of falling apart is that regardless of the setting the in-dash heat/vent system is blowing somewhat to completely out the defrost. Too many start addressing this by replacing the selector switch however the system when it does not have enough vacuum goes into limp mode which favors defrosting the windshield.

I just buy bulk black emissions tubing and use rubber tubing to splice in the new where its needed.

mr.tommy · 09-26-2021, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subford

The code reader to get is this one:

Here is one on amazon but some auto part stores sell them also.

https://www.amazon.com/INNOVA-3145-F...s%2C222&sr=8-5

/

I know the OP needs a OBDI scanner but not to highjack this thread, I have a 2012 F53 MH and went to Innova's website and they don't show any of their products compatible for OBDII F53's. What would you recommend for folks like me?

GypsyR · 09-26-2021, 09:45 AM

Their scanners probably do work on your RV, the sellers likely just aren't aware that "F53" should be on their list.
But anyway, after official Ford equipment, the top dog in OBD II Ford scanning stuff is Forscan. Which you can get set up with surprisingly inexpensively. Assuming you have a laptop already. More info - https://forscan.org/home.html

donr103 · 09-26-2021, 09:49 AM

Mr. Tommy.. no.. you have to get obd2 scanner.. i actually have 5 scanners.. 2 ford obd1 and 3 obd2 over the years.. you can go into auto parts store and they can scan obd2 free.. but you should have your own.. good luck and let us know what you did and maybe better members then me will help you.. oh all obd2 scanner will work.. but the more expensive ones have more features.. so get any obd2.. some members here keep their own obd2 scanner plugged in all the time.. to watch trans temps.. by the way.. I work on Ford's and gm.. and anything else that comes along..

TT_Vert · 10-16-2021, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilV

One of Fords Brighter Ideas, glad you got it sorted out.

Those plastic lines however do fail quite often and will be in the process of splitting along their length where the extrusion die closed the gap as the hot plastic went through. You may find additional issues related to lengths of that tubing having that seam rotted from exposure to light. Also check behind the front cross rails behind the front bumper/fascia for accumulator tanks(rectangular bricks) where the rubber coupler tubing has failed. One sign of the trouble being more generically this tubing in the process of falling apart is that regardless of the setting the in-dash heat/vent system is blowing somewhat to completely out the defrost. Too many start addressing this by replacing the selector switch however the system when it does not have enough vacuum goes into limp mode which favors defrosting the windshield.

I just buy bulk black emissions tubing and use rubber tubing to splice in the new where its needed.

Yeah I'm an old fox body guy so I've dealt w/ my fair share of these lines deteriorating. With that said, every single thing on this RV has been in mint condition (Plastic, rubber, metal). I'm shocked how well everything is preserved on this thing. I went ahead and bought an air pump from a guy given I was unsure of the condition of mine and mine had no pulley anyway. Figured it'd be cheaper to get a used pump w/ pulley. Got the pump and it was missing one of the pressed in hose barbs rendering it useless. I ended up just testing my pump w/ a drill to ensure it pumped air and wasn't noisy. Luckily it worked perfectly and the guy must have just pulled it thinking he could get a few HP back w/o it. I threw the pulley on it from the other pump, put it all back together, put a belt on it and it's probably the most quiet ford air pump i've heard. Now we're at no KOER or KOEO codes. Pretty happy about that given my OCD. I know this probably would have never resulted in any performance issues and I don't even think it sets a CEL but I really wanted that pump functioning.

Dave