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Old 02-03-2020, 02:24 AM   #1
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Exhaust manifold bolt broken

During my last routine service, the tech noticed one of my exhaust manifold bolts broken. It was the last one back on the left bank.
Is this a common/known problem with the F53 chassis?

I tried searching and couldn't come up (find) any post on it but can't imagine I'm the first.
I'm going to have it fixed when we get home, so I'm looking for any information on the subject such as: should the other bolts be replaced on that side while the manifold is off, any experience with what the cost might be (dealer was vague which worries me a little) or any other helpful advice.

Thanks
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Old 02-03-2020, 07:02 AM   #2
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I have a 2014 F53 chassis and found the same thing while looking around the engine. I don't have any leaks from the exhaust manifold yet, so I'm thinking the repair can wait until a more convenient time. I found several youtube videos on the subject of replacing the bolts. As the bolts are usually covered in rust they can be difficult to remove, especially if anti-seizure wasn't used during the installation. Not sure if the manifold has to be removed in its entirety if you're only replacing one bolt. Regardless, the job isn't for the weak of heart!
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Old 02-03-2020, 08:04 AM   #3
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exhaust bolts

Not for the faint of heart for sure, I have a broken one on the right side. It is a common problem for the V10, look on Ford truck forums and you will find many posts about it. My truck garage gave me a quote up to $1600 depending on how many studs broke when they remove the manifolds. I think it will wait until it starts to leak.

Waiter21 has pretty much a horror story here about his broken studs

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f23/broke...rs-400545.html
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Old 02-03-2020, 08:15 AM   #4
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According to my mechanic, this is a common V-10 problem. I had an exhaust leak with mine and the fix was pretty intense. In my case, several studs needed to be replaced and the manifold was warped (which is the basic cause of the whole problem in the first place). The lower row of studs are lower than the frame, so the engine had to be loosened from the engine mounts and the whole engine rolled to gain access. My wrenchturnner saved me some money by having the manifold milled to eliminate the warp instead of going for a whole new one. Absent the exhaust leak, my mileage actually went up because at high speeds, the oxygen sensor is downstream from where air would be sucked in. The result was the sensor yelling for more fuel and it would burn way too rich.
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Old 02-03-2020, 08:21 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upinsmoke View Post
Dealer was vague which worries me a little....
Thanks
Dealer was vague because there's no flat rate for something like this, since there's no way of knowing how long it will take to fix, how many other studs will break, if the manifold is usable, etc. Could take an hour, could take all day.
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Old 02-03-2020, 09:12 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upinsmoke View Post
During my last routine service, the tech noticed one of my exhaust manifold bolts broken. It was the last one back on the left bank.
Is this a common/known problem with the F53 chassis?

I tried searching and couldn't come up (find) any post on it but can't imagine I'm the first.
I'm going to have it fixed when we get home, so I'm looking for any information on the subject such as: should the other bolts be replaced on that side while the manifold is off, any experience with what the cost might be (dealer was vague which worries me a little) or any other helpful advice.

Thanks
Not sure on Fords. But LS motors have a bracket that mounts in holes on side of motor. Then have a bolt the screws into bracket and puts pressure on manifold.
Was like a $15 part..
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Old 02-03-2020, 11:03 AM   #7
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Yes, common problem with all Ford modular engines. The heads and manifold on your 2014 are a little different than my 1999, but the process are similar. I have two writeups on the subject:

F53 – When do you decide to fix broken exhaust studs – 1999 Southwind 35S

The rear most part of the manifold is exposed to constant heat from all five cylinders. The rear of the manifold is also exposed to the weight of the exhaust system hanging on it. This, along with poor metallurgy of the studs results in broken studs..

Replacement can be easy in most cases. Depending on where the stud is broken, it may be repaired without removing the manifold, it depends on the condition of the gasket.

As for a warped manifold, Odds are good if you have a stock manifold, its warped. They can be milled flat, OR, if its not warped to bad, bolt it back on and go, after a few hundred miles, tighten the bolts again.

The temporary solution is to replace the broken studs. I say temporary, because years from now, they will break again . To mitigate this, replace the manifolds with headers and also install a flex joint to reduce the vibration and weight that the headers need to support.

Mine were the worst case that many have ever seen (my luck). I did a writeup on the process on my web site:

F53 – Repairing broken exhaust manifold studs – 1999 Southwind 35S


..
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Old 02-04-2020, 02:42 AM   #8
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Thanks everyone - I think!
I kinda thoughts that might be what I'd hear, I just didn't want to - ugh!

Waiter 21, you not only did a first class repair, it was one of the best reports on the project I've read. Nice job.


For many of us I suspect, your repair is beyond our skill level, desire and possibly beyond the discretionary spending limit.

My question to you is, with one known broken bolt, should I have it replaced now or sit on it and wait for the inevitable leak? If one is broken, is it likely, as in your case, many others might be? The Rv is at about 28k miles.

I'll check out a few of the Ford forums on the subject so I'm better informed when talking with the dealer.


Thanks
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Old 02-04-2020, 02:44 AM   #9
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Waiter 21, loved your post about the exhaust manifold bolts. See my reply. I had a couple of questions for you. Thanks
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:29 PM   #10
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I would spray rust penetrant on the broken bolt many times and the rest of bolts.
Then schedule to get the studs removed, new gasket, replaced studs.
If other bolts break (happens a lot), then you run the risk of the manifold warping.

It's easier to replace the studs when they aren't totally gone. Double nut, heat and remove. If the studs break when removed, then it gets more intense repair. Drilling, retapping etc. If there isn't access for drills (even right angle drill), then the head might have to be removed.

You can schedule the down time with your mechanics calendar. Not a crisis unless you wait too long and it starts to get noisy. Repair can be a day to a week depending on how hard they come out.
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Old 02-04-2020, 11:58 PM   #11
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re: EX Manifold Bolts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Upinsmoke View Post
During my last routine service, the tech noticed one of my exhaust manifold bolts broken. It was the last one back on the left bank.
Is this a common/known problem with the F53 chassis?

I tried searching and couldn't come up (find) any post on it but can't imagine I'm the first.
I'm going to have it fixed when we get home, so I'm looking for any information on the subject such as: should the other bolts be replaced on that side while the manifold is off, any experience with what the cost might be (dealer was vague which worries me a little) or any other helpful advice.

Thanks
Expensive job, I can only imagine based on my hands on OTHER experiences, so many things that can go wrong... F-53, assuming V-10? MY v-10 class-c, 99, 42k miles (one+??) noted broken during my DIY oil change... mine will remain that way UNTIL I note a problem, (leak, excess leak, etc)... as I have NO IDEA of how many years/ miles it has already been broken? .... and have noted NO issue to date... Have read of manifolds with SLOTS vs HOLES as (potential) cure against future breaks
. RECOMMEND YOU CALL/ DISCUSS w/ multiple shops/ mechanics vs getting ripped off at a dealer without question? Maybe even have further inspection for leakage evidence? If heads have to be pulled, by all means, replace ALL studs, but if can be done on engine, just broken ones? ALSO CHECK YOUTUBE????? TALK W/ TRUCK SHOPS, NOT dealers
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Old 02-05-2020, 11:18 AM   #12
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The rear passenger side is the hottest one due to the location. The engine sits over to the right side and being in the back, it never gets a break. There was also a heat shield I had to grind off that Fleetwood tacked to the frame.
The lower bolts are accessible by jacking up the engine by the oil pan with some blocks.
I also decked mine myself on a belt sander....it took some time.
Ther driver side was a breeze.
Both sides required I remove the wheel and work on my knees, but didn't take all that long...maybe 3 or 4 days after work.
So far, so good.
Here's a few pics:
https://imgur.com/a/AbIEufx
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:19 PM   #13
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The advice I agree with so far is that this is/will be a difficult job.

Most pro's dealing with this these days are welding a washer and then a nut to the broken studs. Even those down in the hole, as normal MIG welding wire doesn't "stick" to aluminum heads. More than giving you a nut to put a tool on, the welding "heat shocks" the fastener, often loosening it enough that it spins right out. This is not just a 6.8 thing, Dodges, GM's, and Fords are all coming in with broken exhaust studs.

Though welding is the preferred method, if you have to drill they sell templates to help you try and drill straight. One specifically for the 6.8 also fits the Ford 5.4's, and 4.6's. One I bought ran $50. The welding method is unfortunately not always 100% successful. If you choose not to get into this particular repair yourself try and make sure the shop you take it too has been around the block a time or two and is aware of the welding method. An induction heater works great to help remove the studs that aren't snapped off flush or below. Ask if they have one. They run about $400-500 and not everybody has one. (I love mine)

Another note, Google the relation between EGR and fuel mileage. If your coach's gas mileage is way to good and you want to lower it then by all means, block off the EGR.
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiter21 View Post
Yes, common problem with all Ford modular engines. The heads and manifold on your 2014 are a little different than my 1999, but the process are similar. I have two writeups on the subject:

F53 When do you decide to fix broken exhaust studs 1999 Southwind 35S

The rear most part of the manifold is exposed to constant heat from all five cylinders. The rear of the manifold is also exposed to the weight of the exhaust system hanging on it. This, along with poor metallurgy of the studs results in broken studs..

Replacement can be easy in most cases. Depending on where the stud is broken, it may be repaired without removing the manifold, it depends on the condition of the gasket.

As for a warped manifold, Odds are good if you have a stock manifold, its warped. They can be milled flat, OR, if its not warped to bad, bolt it back on and go, after a few hundred miles, tighten the bolts again.

The temporary solution is to replace the broken studs. I say temporary, because years from now, they will break again . To mitigate this, replace the manifolds with headers and also install a flex joint to reduce the vibration and weight that the headers need to support.

Mine were the worst case that many have ever seen (my luck). I did a writeup on the process on my web site:

F53 Repairing broken exhaust manifold studs 1999 Southwind 35S


..
Wouldn't replacing with stainless mitigate this problem with stock manifolds?
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