F53 brakes

[YC1]

Originally Posted by YC1

Sure am waiting for the answer even though it has been over ten years since we had the workhorse chassis that took both feet to stop. It was brand new. Took it to the shop and it improved slightly but not enough.

It was not a soft pedal. I suspected either the ABS system was keeping the proper pressure from getting to the brakes or that the brake lines were not designed proper. They went from decent size lines and then split off into tiny lines. I highly suspected that transition caused a loss of mechanical advantage.

It was not overloaded either. It was brand spanking new off the lot. It scared the hell out of me going through Sacramento Traffic with a new wide body RV that would not stop.

It went to the shop quickly. They improved things a bit but it always took a tremendous leg pressure to stop.

Either a poor design or there is a component malfunction. One would think there are simple tools to measure pressures along the lines. I built an airplane and one of the first things I changed was the poor performing brakes.

I compared my Workhorse chassis to the Ford chassis of the same model and the Ford would skid the tires basically.

I kept an anchor handy when driving mine.

Hopefully someone with the right set of gauges will get to the bottom of it. I would be howling at the service center.

For those of you here that I know are on top of the game such as Twinboat, could it be they have incorrect sized lines, or the tees that spread the pressure over the rear axel for example are incorrect. Those darn lines were no bigger than the ones on my 700 lb airplane,

Ok. I vented, sheesh it's been over ten years and I'm still ticked I couldn't get the answers then.

[jbringneck]

All Brake Pads are not created equal! The Coefficient of Friction (COF) varies widely, and all brake pads have letters stamped on them indicating their COF, and range from E, F, G, and H. H is normally reserved for use on race cars as they tolerate high heat conditions and will actually glow! But for our more normal usage, G-rated pads are the best choice for greatest stopping power. There's a huge difference in stopping power from E to G! While helping a a friend with a slow stopping P-30 chassis motorhome I made sure he purchased G-rated Brake Pads and WOW, what a difference in braking performance! So, my advice is make sure you put on some G-rated Brake Pads!

[maddczech]

Originally Posted by Zow

After spending thousands on a complete brake system, rotors, pads, calipers, Im still not happy with the way this georgetown 378 stops you have to stand on the pedal , is it me or are all motor homes this way .Ive had class C"s and at least they felt like you could stop them , this thing scares me and I leave a lot of room for stopping but what about an emergency . Does anyone make after market 4cyl calipers for this chassis ?

Take it back and tell em you want the system bled.
Tell your insurance company to give em a call.
Park it in front of their shop, go inside and make some noise !

[AdamsZ]

When I got my F53 I had the same issue. I rebuilt calipers, new rotors and FF pads front and rear. Difference was night and day. No more fear!

[TeJay]

Many, many good and very important points have been made. Some of us who have experienced education of technical subjects and dealt with DIY folks along with some who are just not informed regarding the proper ways to perform a competent and proper "Brake Job" recognize the many good and bad approaches to brake repairs.

When an individual attempts to secure a shop to perform brake work it should concern them. If one is informed and knows the proper questions to ask that can help immensely. Here's a few question I'd ask.

1. Do you do anything to check the condition of the rotors?
2. Is it necessary to completely bleed the brake system?
3. Should the calipers be inspected or checked to determine if they are working properly?
4. Is there a brake pad break in period one needs to follow after the brakes are replaced?
5. What is the purpose for a break in period?
6. Can you tell me what type of brake pad you are going to use?
7. Why did you choose that pad?
8. Will the type of pad you choose make any difference? If so what difference will it make?
9. Is it necessary to machine the rotors and if so why?
10. Does the type of brake fluid play any role in the quality of my brakes?

These are some just a few questions I would/might ask if I were trying to find a shop to do my RV brakes. If I did not have the background that I do I'd research these questions, take notes and ask some of these questions. Doing brake work is perhaps one of these most important repairs that any shop can perform. Doing it with only half of the information is asking for a law suit.

If one feels totally inadequate to learn how to ask these questions ask a knowledgeable friend to go along with you. How can that hurt?

To often we only rely on a shop to tell us what we want to hear. To often we are so price conscience we are afraid to spend more than we need to so the job can be performed correctly. Yes and some times shops take advantage of the uninformed customer.

About 20 years ago our Daughter and family moved to Denver for a year. My SIL took his vehicle in for some muffler work and called from the shop. The SM was telling him he needed a complete brake job. He called me and I spoke to the service manager and informed him we had done all his brakes just 6 months before they departed for Denver. The SM could not tell me why he thought the brakes needed to be fixed so he backed off. It was a clear attempt to misinform my SIL.

Seeking answers/information from forums like this can go a long ways towards finding a shop that would perform a proper brake repair.

[vincee]

I had a 2011 Georgetown on an F53. Although the pedal pressure was soft, if I really needed to stop fast while also towing our Kia and dolly, the Ford never failed me, thank god. This includes driving the rig through Badlands National Park in So. Dakota and encountering numerous 9% grades throughout our Black Hills trip.

When we returned home I had the rear brakes done. New rotors and pads, $1100, at a truck service shop. After that, the GT would stop on a dime.

Oh, by the why, my DP now with air brakes so many DP owners tout and brag about has the same soft brake pedal feeling o the gas Ford F53, but just like the Ford, it will stop as fast as I need it to.

[jeddpearl]

Ours is fairly new but absolutely no issues at all stopping our Georgetown GT5 34H5 on a F53 chassis.

[H Steinhoff]

we had 120,000 miles on our !992 Pinnacle, with still the original brakes, the pads about half worn. It took all the strength I had for a quick stop (that was 7 years ago then and I have a lot less strength at 83 now and am glad I traded it in.

[Denis RV]

Originally Posted by twinboat

Cheap brake pads will make stopping suck.

There are many types of friction material. The lifetime ones don't wear out but don't stop either.

You won't lock up antilock brakes on a 2010 but better pads will make it stop better.

Ask your shop what they installed and tell them you want a higher friction pad.

I have been a mechanic a long time and with out the rv your guessing take it back or to someone to do it right. It could be this or that buy it your life your playing with and it sounds like you have a problem but their is a lot of parts to a brake system get fixed before you regret it. Hope all your days are safe

[CaptronNZ]

I have a 97 F-53 Fleetwood, and brakes have always been crap since day one. It’s got 130k KM, I always thought the crappy brakes were just another of FORD’s ‘better ideas’.

I have checked them out several times as best as I can, and the brakes all seem to be in good shape all the way round. I’m now thinking the booster perhaps?

I can just about but not quite lock’em up if I literally stand on the brakes and pull on the steering wheel. Not a pleasant experience.

And Comments on Comments:

*If you have air in your brakes your brakes will be spongy and soft, not an issue with mine.
*Did anyone answer if they can actually test the brake booster without an R&R
*YC1: Myron, hydraulic pressure is pressure and as long as there is no or low hydraulic flow, your calipers will work the same as if it had a 1” pipe, in fact a larger pipe adds metal flex to the equation, so the smaller lines you see are not a big issue.
* Massparanoia: In Canada the link is (no filter though) https://www.fleet.ford.ca/dealership...der-finddealer

I will be checking the brakes out again this year once we get out of lockup. I will see if I can get a reading of exactly what pads are installed.

[YC1]

Pressure is pressure is NOT a correct argument if I remember my Physics classes. My point is you drive X amount of fluid into a large space and you gain leverage. Pressure may be the same but you can move a heavy object by filling a large container with a small hose.

If you reverse that process by going from a large vessel into a small vessel you lose your mechanical advantage.

From personal experience changing from a smaller size caliper and brake pads to some that were 1.5 larger I could skid the brakes on my home built airplane versus adding pedal extensions to try and get it to stop.

The same devices that pushed the same fluid through the same size hoses made the new calipers and pads work perfectly. The calipers and pads were simply sized to small.

That said, I think the design of the plumbing on my RV made the mechanical advantage of the fluid opposite of what is should have been.

Thus, one must measure the pressure at the caliper and then check with the mfgr to see if it is withing design specs.

If the mfgr did not install brake pads that would do the job then that is another problem in the equation.

Sheesh, still ticked off all these years later. But I solved it on my airplane.

[twinboat]

Pressure is pressure. If there are small lines or other restrictions then there is friction loss and flow restriction. That will delay the pressure getting to the caliper, but it will still get there.

Adding diameter to the caliper piston adds square inches for the pressure to push against. That adds clamping force to the caliper. The pressure gets to push against more surface.

Decreasing the diameter of the master cylinder will do the same, but in both cases, pedal travel increases, to move the same amount of fluid.


Without getting into math, If a 1 inch master cylinder makes 2000 psi, stepping hard on brake pedal. That 2000 psi pushing against a 5 inch caliper piston creates 10,000 psi of force.

That's why air brakes use big, brake chambers and cams & levers, they only operate at 120 psi.

[gatorb8]

if the brakelines are bleed correctly and the pads/rotors/ calipers are good, I suspect hydroboost

could the rubber brake lines be expanding?

[TeJay]

I'm not an expert on brake lines but I'm almost 100% sure all flex brake lines are covered with steel webbing which would/should prevent them from expanding.

Over my many (45+) years of experience I've seen only a few failed flex lines. One had a pinhole leak which was easy to see. Another was internally crumbling/failing rubber. It was twisted as the result of removing the caliper during a pad exchange. Instead of twisting it so the line did not kink the opposite was done. It was twisted the opposite direction and the line then kinked internally blocking the fluid.

Most technically experienced individuals when purchasing used vehicles but also based on their intended plans for said vehicle will often replace all flex lines as a precaution. My best guess as to the number of years flex lines will last would be in the 8 to 10 year range.

Waiter21 is a frequent poster on these forums and I have read other posters who also purchased used RV's with the intention of keeping the RV for the immediate future. He and others replaced those lines following the RV purchase.

I've got a 2000 Ford range pickup I plan on keeping until I can't drive. It turned 100,000 miles when we bought it. That was 4 years ago and it only accumulated another 6,000 miles since that time. Those flex lines will be changed some time soon. We drive it very little so the need is not immediate.

Those above posters reporting pads lasting over 70,000 to 100,000 miles and don't stop well I'd guess with at least a 90+% certainty the pads are glazed and rotors very smooth. You can't create friction under those circumstances. If one can't make friction insufficient heat is generated to stop the vehicle. That is again another factual reason for always machining rotors when replacing disc pads.

IMHO the best some what recent addition to become standard practices is the idea of completely flushing the brake systems fluid on a 3-4 year cycle. Great idea and addition to come down the road in years. This may help to extend the flex lines years of service.