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Old 07-29-2006, 08:38 PM   #1
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I had my Ford chassis 1990 Winnebago Elandan in a sick bay at a Ford dealership that services (Ford) motorhomes for a power steering box problem, and while there I asked them to check my front brakes because they overheat (350F to 470F on the rotor) within the first 30 to 40 km run of the day at 100km per hour.

They road tested the rig (learned today a measly 5km at city speeds) and said it didn't overheat; I said I could have told them it wouldn't. They suggested new calipers and pads because the existing ones showed signs of overheating. I asked them to check the rotor to be sure it had no warp in it--it didn't.

Picked the rig up this morning and told the service adviser I'd call in thirty to forty minutes to tell them either no over heating, or yes, it is overheating.

At the start, the rotor (with its new calipers and pads) was at ambient temperature: 75F.

I drove 4km at 100km/hour then pulled into a rest stop and measured the temperatures of the rotors: both at 120F.

I then drove 27km at 100km/hour and pulled into a weigh station and measured the temperatures of the rotors: R at 341F and L at 323F.

Shut down the engine for ten, but not more than fifteen minutes while I called the Ford dealership who said, bring it back. I then drove 39km back to the dealership, of which about 32km were at 100km/hr. The temperatures at the dealership were R at 130F and L at 132F.

These data fall within the pattern I've observed over about two years and which I cope with by stopping after the first 30 to 40km and shutting down for a short period of time. I'd say that 90% of the rotor temperatures I observe range between 350F and 480F--and all this with virtually no braking, just 100km/hour on straight and level highway.

I have noticed, but not tested to demonstrate reproducibility, that if I start the engine and let it run until the radiator temperature gauge is in the normal range, and then shut down for a short period of time, and then run for the first 30 to 40 km that the rotors do not overheat.

One more observation. On the first start up of the day, the brake pedal has little play and is very firm; but after that first shut down, the pedal has more play and on braking there is what I would describe as a normal softmess when pressing down on the pedal.

Looking forward to your thoughts because I have an appointment with the techie on Tuesday.

Ciao,

Doug
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Old 07-29-2006, 08:38 PM   #2
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I had my Ford chassis 1990 Winnebago Elandan in a sick bay at a Ford dealership that services (Ford) motorhomes for a power steering box problem, and while there I asked them to check my front brakes because they overheat (350F to 470F on the rotor) within the first 30 to 40 km run of the day at 100km per hour.

They road tested the rig (learned today a measly 5km at city speeds) and said it didn't overheat; I said I could have told them it wouldn't. They suggested new calipers and pads because the existing ones showed signs of overheating. I asked them to check the rotor to be sure it had no warp in it--it didn't.

Picked the rig up this morning and told the service adviser I'd call in thirty to forty minutes to tell them either no over heating, or yes, it is overheating.

At the start, the rotor (with its new calipers and pads) was at ambient temperature: 75F.

I drove 4km at 100km/hour then pulled into a rest stop and measured the temperatures of the rotors: both at 120F.

I then drove 27km at 100km/hour and pulled into a weigh station and measured the temperatures of the rotors: R at 341F and L at 323F.

Shut down the engine for ten, but not more than fifteen minutes while I called the Ford dealership who said, bring it back. I then drove 39km back to the dealership, of which about 32km were at 100km/hr. The temperatures at the dealership were R at 130F and L at 132F.

These data fall within the pattern I've observed over about two years and which I cope with by stopping after the first 30 to 40km and shutting down for a short period of time. I'd say that 90% of the rotor temperatures I observe range between 350F and 480F--and all this with virtually no braking, just 100km/hour on straight and level highway.

I have noticed, but not tested to demonstrate reproducibility, that if I start the engine and let it run until the radiator temperature gauge is in the normal range, and then shut down for a short period of time, and then run for the first 30 to 40 km that the rotors do not overheat.

One more observation. On the first start up of the day, the brake pedal has little play and is very firm; but after that first shut down, the pedal has more play and on braking there is what I would describe as a normal softmess when pressing down on the pedal.

Looking forward to your thoughts because I have an appointment with the techie on Tuesday.

Ciao,

Doug
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Old 07-30-2006, 05:53 PM   #3
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Hi Dougj Have you flushed your brake system ?
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Old 07-31-2006, 12:23 PM   #4
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Doug,
I'm assuming vacuum assisted hydraulic brakes here. Try to pull up on the brake pedal with your hand... maybe 10lbs worth to make sure brake switch is set properly and allowing venting of the master cylinder compensation port. Flush all fluid and bleed brakes. If still no good, replace master cylinder. That's all I can think of.

Good Luck.
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:15 PM   #5
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Fords also have a problem with the brakes dragging if the calipers are not lubed ( Ford has a special grease for this part # XG-3) lube the calipers and pins along with the brake pads where they ride on the cradle.
May also want to replace the front brake hoses to the calipers they dry out and break inside and will not let the brake fluid flow back.
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Old 07-31-2006, 06:27 PM   #6
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Hi folks,

Thanks to all of you for your replies.

Hammerman: <span class="ev_code_RED">Have you flushed your brake system ?</span> May be, may be not. The reason I can't answer for sure is that some service centres tell me they've flushed it, while others (including the ford dealership that's doing the current work) say they can't hook up their flusing unit to the rig and so haven't flushed it.

Capt. Flipper: <span class="ev_code_RED">I'm assuming vacuum assisted hydraulic brakes here.</span>

It has a hydravac system, or is that a hydraboost? I am thinking that the pedal play adjustment may need backing off a bit.

John W.: <span class="ev_code_RED">May also want to replace the front brake hoses to the calipers they dry out and break inside and will not let the brake fluid flow back.</span>

Yes, I have had those flex hoses replaced.


Again my thanks. We'll see what the techies have to say tomorrow.

Ciao,

Doug
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Old 08-01-2006, 05:45 PM   #7
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to keep you in the loop on this matter:

To give the techie with whom I was to chat somethings to think about, I wrote a detailed account of the presenting symptoms, added some other details of maintenance that I thought might have a bearing on the primary issue, and then set down my suggestions (garnered from this thread and a thread on another forum) in the form of seven questions.

We did speak and the techie said he had no idea what might be causing the problem; had never run across anything like this. He asked me to bide my time until Thursday when the manager of service is back on duty. He thought that he and the manager should be in contact with Ford's techies for ideas. I pressed on the issue of replacing the master cylinder and he said he'd get that priced out for me.

So, I now wait until Thursday afternoon--at least this dealership isn't into bullsh**ing me and seems willing to make an effort to uncover the real problem.

Ciao,

Doug
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Old 09-16-2006, 11:51 AM   #8
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I'm sure some of you will be interested in what's happened since August.

Also, I now have the explanation as to why my brakes were overheating.

My Ford chassis was built in late 1989--certainly before Feb 15, 1990.

In July 1990 a safety recall, #90S07, was issued. This recall was directed to 1989/90 F53 and F59 Stripped Chassis. The reasons for the recall, and here I quote from the July 1990 Ford letter:
-----------------
The front brakes may drag and overheat. During normal driving, without the brake pedal appled, the brake pads may contact the rotor and overheat. The driver may smell and/or see smoke coming from the brakes. [now follows a warning about the possiblity of a crash] To correct this condition, dealers are to modify and reroute the hydroboost return hoses.
-----------------

I experienced all the symptoms described.

I picked up the rig today with the rerouting now done.

Whereas in mid-August when I picked it up after they had replaced calipers and pads (and installed a rebuilt power steering box which was the reason that I ended up at this Ford dealer), I drove 30km at highway speeds at which point the front rotors were 360F, within ten degrees of each other. Today, driving the same distance on the same route, the temps were 130 and 131F. Wow!!!

I checked three times more on the way home, once after a 2km down grade of about 8%, and the temps were 180-ish; never did get a reading over 200F when before I'd rarely see a reading under 200F.

Ciao,

Doug
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