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Old 07-21-2021, 08:40 PM   #1
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Front Sumoís

Looking for opinion here, I just ordered a 2022 Baystar 3014...Reviewing my order with the owner of the dealership I stressed that I wanted to improve the ride as much as possible. So I brought up koni shocks, sumo springs, etc...

He flatly stated that all he would do is install safety steer plus and safety rear track bar. No sumos, no need to switch out the shocks. He went on to state that the Ford Chassis with the V8 has been improved as far as the suspension goes. Thicker anti sway bars....he could of easily told me to get the Sumoís and I would of said yes.
I just want to make the right decision here, The dealer is doing all the work and the pricing he gave me to do the other improvements is more than fair.

So, question I have has anyone have any experience with the newer chassis with the same improvements and what are real world results.


Thanks

Tony
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:28 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginton View Post
Looking for opinion here, I just ordered a 2022 Baystar 3014...Reviewing my order with the owner of the dealership I stressed that I wanted to improve the ride as much as possible. So I brought up koni shocks, sumo springs, etc...

He flatly stated that all he would do is install safety steer plus and safety rear track bar. No sumos, no need to switch out the shocks. He went on to state that the Ford Chassis with the V8 has been improved as far as the suspension goes. Thicker anti sway bars....he could of easily told me to get the Sumoís and I would of said yes.
I just want to make the right decision here, The dealer is doing all the work and the pricing he gave me to do the other improvements is more than fair.

So, question I have has anyone have any experience with the newer chassis with the same improvements and what are real world results.


Thanks

Tony
Well to give you some perspective, I have a 2016. Yeah the sway bars are a little bigger, but itís still riding on leaf springs. I have sumoís front and rear and Koni FSDís all the way around. The difference is night and day. The biggest difference in roll/sway was from the sumoís. Biggest difference in ride quality came from the Koniís.

But ride is subjective. First step I would do is take it to get a proper alignment, and then weigh it and adjust your tire pressures accordingly. Then go from there.

I attached a pic to show the difference between the Koni and the oem shock.
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:33 PM   #3
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Tony,

There's another thread concerning the Stabilizer Bar (SB) bracket bolts coming loose and the bushing sliding to the side. These are units with under 1,000 to 3,000 miles. They are being fixed under warrant. Ask the dealer to remove the bolts and add some lock tight so they don't come off. There's even a shortage of replacement bushings. No one is saying the shortage is because so many are failing but it may be a not mentioned factor.

There also seems to be a fair number of RV's having this issue.

I have not driven the newer chassis but adding a rear track bar and the steer safe would be a very good start. I'd hold off on the shock change and any other MODS until you have some time to drive and evaluate the ride. Then proceed with MODS but only do one at a time. Again so you can evaluate what ever you decide to do.

I personally do not like the Sumo's. I tried a front set and didn't like them. They are made out of a type of rubber. Yes they will compress some and reduce sway. Once they compress some they become very hard and that can lead to harshness in the ride or even firmer/harder impacts when you hit a good bump or rut!!. Don't get me wrong! Some have added them and like them. I just didn't.
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:33 PM   #4
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You can see the difference in thickness between the Koni and Bilsteins
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
So, question I have has anyone have any experience with the newer chassis with the same improvements and what are real world results.

I agree with your dealer. There are way too many differences between the V10 chassis and the V8 chassis, even discounting the differences between what you will have and what others have for GVWR and wheelbase.

Even though I knew what I thought my V10 chassis could benefit from I just had the dealer install a Safe-T-Plus and I drove it for a while until I knew what problems I wanted to address.

Remember, just because something worked on a V10 does not mean it will produce the same effect on the V8.

Ray
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Old 07-22-2021, 06:09 AM   #6
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Thanks all, great advice... Agree to follow Dealer's advice, wait and see, drive the Coach for a while, get a alignment and adjust tire pressure accordingly. I did read the thread about the bolts coming loose on the anti-sway bars, and will have the dealer remove and add loc-tite too the bolt threads and retighten , will get him to also mark the bolts so I can see if there is any loosening later on.
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Old 07-22-2021, 08:57 AM   #7
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Lots of comments from those without a v8 or driven one.

Without a doubt the v8 chassis is sooo much better. Had sumo's on the last one. IMO not needed on the v8 chassis, it is that much better - especially if you have 22.5's. I agree with the dealer 100%. Trackbar (depending on how much tail your specific rig has) and steer safe yes, and I plan to do those next year. I wanted to give it a year of driving before I made any decisions. Honestly I could probably do without the trackbar on mine (bounder 35k) as it really isn't that bad, but I figure it should help some so why not.

Regarding the shocks, I was under mine yesterday and the shocks look very beefy. If someone has a Koni lying around I would love to get a diameter measurement. I don't believe on the v8 they are as small as that comparison picture depicts
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Old 07-22-2021, 10:18 AM   #8
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Not sure I'd use the size of a shock as a measure of what it can or can not do for the ride quality. Lets look at it this way as well. In all my years of teaching automotive, additional years of classes when the iindustry went to all computers and alignment training in St. Louis at the Hunter training center shock absorber size (diameter) was never mentioned as a measure of ride quality.

That does not include all the many, many discussions I've had with scores of automotive educators from all across the US as well as individuals working in the automotive and trucking industry.

JMHO!!!
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Old 07-22-2021, 04:18 PM   #9
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Not sure I'd use the size of a shock as a measure of what it can or can not do for the ride quality. Lets look at it this way as well. In all my years of teaching automotive, additional years of classes when the iindustry went to all computers and alignment training in St. Louis at the Hunter training center shock absorber size (diameter) was never mentioned as a measure of ride quality.

That does not include all the many, many discussions I've had with scores of automotive educators from all across the US as well as individuals working in the automotive and trucking industry.

JMHO!!!
While I generally agree, I would argue that the size of the shock is directly related to the amount of fluid it has inside of it. The more fluid, the slower it is going to increase in temperature from repeated movements and also there is a higher likelihood that it could have a higher dampening effect. But generally yes, other than maybe the piston rod diameter and its strength against side axis loading (which isn't really a thing in this application) there isn't a huge correlation between diameter and quality.
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Old 07-23-2021, 06:43 AM   #10
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There are other variables that have to be figured into the equation. The viscosity of the fluid and the valving are certainly big factors. None of those can be accurately evaluated by a visual inspection.

If you look at an electrial extension chord and see a large diameter outer plastic casing this is no measure of the cords current capacity. It's the diameter of the copper wire that makes the difference. I've seen jumper cables that looked heavy but were real cheap. Pick them up and you'll feel the difference in weight based on the diameter of the copper wire.
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Old 07-23-2021, 12:12 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Massparanoia View Post
Well to give you some perspective, I have a 2016. Yeah the sway bars are a little bigger, but itís still riding on leaf springs. I have sumoís front and rear and Koni FSDís all the way around. The difference is night and day. The biggest difference in roll/sway was from the sumoís. Biggest difference in ride quality came from the Koniís.
I believe the new sway bars are 2" in diameter vs the old which are 1.5". Most after market sway bars for the old ones are 1.75"

Spring rate for comparison:

Old stock 1.5: 750 lbs/inch
CHF: ~1200 lbs/inch
Old aftermarket 1.75: 1400 lbs/inch
New 2.0: 2400 lbs/inch

So you're looking at more than 3 times the stiffness / spring rate which is huge, its not just "a little" change.

Sumos don't change whether you're riding on leafs or not, they just add to them. I agree with dealer, if you need more sway control stiffer sway bars are the solution, which is exactly what Ford did big time and you got them for 2020, Sumos would just stiffen the suspension even more, give you less sway but rougher ride all the time in all situations.

Koni are supposed to be highly digressive in valving supposedly having low damping for bumps and high damping for slow movements like sway, so they could soften the ride and improve sway depending on how good the valving is at adapting. Other makers do digressive valving too but don't seem to market it like Koni which calls it FSD. Until we can find the damping rates who knows which shock has the least damping for the softest ride over bumps with the most damping for sway.
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