Community Forums

Rvbuzz · 09-27-2014, 08:30 AM

Update.
After a quick online search I have found that Hawk makes pads for the F53 chassis.
This is the same company that I have been using for my racecar brakes for 15 years with excellant results.
I ordered a set of the DTC30 compound pads for the front and hope to install them this week. They have a wide operating range and are designed for heavy duty trucks.
Will post a report soon. I do expect to see a major improvement in initial bite and fade resistence.
Hawk makes some really great products.

TeJay · 09-27-2014, 06:03 PM

Rvbuzz,
Good information. Do let us know the outcome. It's always great to get information from those with some experience and knowledge of the subject. Man I'm always ready (even at 70) to learn about new technology.

Thanks,

TeJay

NeilV · 09-28-2014, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-B

Buzz,
Don't neglect checking the rear brakes. On a motorhome the brake proportioning is different than a car since the rear is much heavier. Not unusual for the rear pads to wear just as fast or faster than the front.

Yes, rears have double the weight on them compared to the front. You are talking about a dual wheel rear axle that is never really unloaded since it is carrying the bulk of the weight of the house plus or minus 2,000 lbs or so of you and your stuff.

Rvbuzz · 09-28-2014, 10:58 PM

My plan is to Install front pads first just to see what change it makes and if like the direction it is going then will add read pads with same compound.

It makes sense that the rears would get used up at the same rate as fronts.

cb1000rider · 10-03-2014, 04:20 PM

Some of this seems to come down to "feel". In my experience - high performance pads - ceramics - don't "grab" as well as organic pad until they're hot. This results in a feel that is less than desirable if you like brakes that bite right off the bat...

They do much better under conditions where the rotor is hot, but under normal driving - not great...

Rvbuzz · 10-07-2014, 10:14 PM

The DTC 30 pads have an operating temp range of 100 f -1200 f.
These are considered to be a racing compound but are rotor friendly and supposed to be quiet.
My personal experience with Hawk pads has been good. I have been using them on my racecars for 15 years with no failures of any kind.
At $120 a set they are not cheap. But if the performance is better and has less fade while towing and braking on grades then it is worth it.

Hikerdogs · 10-08-2014, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rvbuzz

My plan is to Install front pads first just to see what change it makes and if like the direction it is going then will add read pads with same compound.

It makes sense that the rears would get used up at the same rate as fronts.

Actually the rear brakes get used up faster than the fronts. I changed out the pads on our 2001 F53 chassis at 75,000 miles. The front pads still had about 1/3 of the material remaining. The rear pads were paper thin.

The front and rear pads are the same, so if you decide to change the rears first you still have the pads you need.

SteveLevin · 10-08-2014, 11:10 AM

Hate to ask this question... but have the brakes been bled? And possibly, especially since motorhomes stand around, maybe flushing through and replacing the fluid might be the answer...

Steve

rodz · 10-08-2014, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLevin

Hate to ask this question... but have the brakes been bled? And possibly, especially since motorhomes stand around, maybe flushing through and replacing the fluid might be the answer...

Steve

All the new f53 chassis do it. Mine is new and it has the same issue. It will stop on a dime, just takes lots of pedal pressure.

Hikerdogs · 10-08-2014, 03:50 PM

I don't believe bleeding or flushing the system is going to have any effect on the amount of pedal pressure it takes to stop the motorhome. I installed a Brakemaster 9060 braking system on our 2013 F53 chassis. Part of the installation is removing short section of brake line and Teeing in a proportioning valve. The system was flushed and refilled with DOT 5.1 brake fluid. There's no difference in the pedal pressure required before or after flushing the system.

On another note after driving the motorhome for a few thousand miles you'll get used to the amount of pressure required to stop the vehicle. We have over 16,000 miles on our 2013. Both my wife and I drive it, and have gotten used to the difference between this one and our 2001 F53 chassis

Rvbuzz · 10-08-2014, 11:38 PM

I havent bleed or flushed my system but being a 2013 itshould not need it yet.
I can certainly do that before I install pads to see if there is any change. But as has been stated they do work fine if you really get into them.
My wife also drives and we have a little over 10,000 miles on it now. She is ok with the brakes. I personally feel they could be alot better especially at the initial point of applying brakes.

Rvbuzz · 10-18-2014, 06:10 PM

I finally installed the Hawk DTC30 brake pads and there is a noticeable improvement in pedal feel, initial bite and stopping power at lower pedal pressures.

This is what I was looking for and happy with my choice.

That said, the pads do squeal when cold and I suspect that is caused by my not sanding the rotors before installing new pads. I have gotten away with not re-surfacing or sanding with 120 grit that I gave it a try.

I will now have to start all over and properly prepare the rotors :-(

The pads are different for each chassis, meaning that the 26K chassis and 24K chassis do not use the same pads. A couple of the chassis used the same pads but most were weight specific so be sure to look at that if you buy some.

Overall this was the right direction for me. With a higher coefficient pad it is likely that rotor wear will be increased.

spanuts · 10-18-2014, 08:49 PM

3 years ago on my 2006 f53 18000#sightseer i changed tires. The rotors were a little rusty and needed a little help with 35000 miles on them. The pads looked great so as i had tires off i used a battery drill with 120 grit disk, with one hand i spun the rotor on the unit and other hand with drill sanded rotors. They looked like new when done only took minutes did not even have to take rotors off .the hawk pads sound like a good way to go NEXT

TeJay · 10-19-2014, 09:05 AM

I realize that everybody has an opinion regarding rotors and machining. I always try to back up opinions with facts along with common sense and reason. Yes scientific studies would help but that's not my job. Experience has been my teacher over the last 40 years. Some of what I'll post many already know but others may not.

Brakes work because two surfaces rub together and create heat. It's the ability to generate heat that gives the brakes their effectiveness. Also during the burnishing or breaking in process pad material will transfer and embed itself into the rotor. That transfer of material is crucial to the over-all effectiveness of the brakes.

New pads will be flat but used rotors will not be flat. How flat they are in relation to the pad will vary. Exactly how flat your rotors are will affect how well your brakes will work after the burnishing period is complete.

If you do not know or have not done this you should Google "Brake burnishing."

CS (common sense) tells me if the two surfaces designed to rub together are anything less than 100% flat that will reduce my brakes. How much??? That's difficult to tell but any amount in my mind is to much.

CS also tells me that one can not make the rotors flat using a drill and sand paper. Yes you can remove some of the shiny glazed surface. What about the embedded material left from the old brake pads?? Exactly how is that going to affect the new pads??? We don't know.

Here's another point. Cast iron is porous. If you get oil/grease on a drum or rotor it will seep into the cast iron. How much??? Who knows. In my mind any amount is to much. Can it be washed off?? I've been told no.

When a rotor is bolted onto a brake lathe it is mounted exactly as it is mounted onto the axle. The bearings and axle are designed so the rotor spins at right angles to the axis of rotation. I have taken brand new good quality rotors out of the box, mounted them on an accurate (dialed in) lathe and they showed .010 to .020 run-out. If mounted on a vehicle you will have pedal pulsations and an unhappy customer.

Here's something else that I did for students. Mount a rotor on a car with no rim and just using the lug bolts. For now just snug the rotor down. Using a dial indicator check the rotor run-out. Mark the rotor indicating any areas of run-out. Torque all bolts down to say 80 Ft/lbs except one and torque it to only 70 FT/LBS. Re-check the rotor run-out and it will now be warped in a new place based on the un-even torquing. That's an eye-opener.

Have you ever heard of any technician taking 100 grit sand paper on a small disc sander using it to clean the dirt/rust from the area on the backside of the rotor that will mate up against the axle flange??? If you have a chunk of dirt in that area it will cause the rotor to tilt creating an artificial run-out.

We always cleaned the back side of the rotor before mounting. When the machining was finished (rotor still turning on the lathe) we always used the disc sander to create a non-directional finish on both sides of the rotor. The surface finish is critical to rotor burnishing.

At one point in my career I called a machine tool company to try and get some ceramic cutters for our brake lathe. I thought they might last longer. We always used carbide cutters. When I spoke to one of their guys he asked me what I wanted them for so I told him. He said, "That's not a good idea. The surface finish on a cast iron rotor should not be smooth. It needs to maintain a certain amount of roughness so the pads can burnish properly." That made a lot of sense. Remember we are creating friction/heat to convert energy of motion into another form so we can stop the vehicle. Smooth surface and not as much heat generated.

This was always my approach. When performing repairs I'll do everything technically possible to achieve the absolute best possible outcome. Within reason I will avail myself of the latest changes/improvements in technology. I will always be honest with customers nor cut corners in any way shape or form. I owed that approach to my students because I knew they may/would enter the work force and people would depend on them. I sleep well at night also.

Learning never stops,

TeJay