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Old 06-02-2016, 11:41 AM   #1
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Hydro-max brake pressure differential sensor on F53

DOES ANYBODY KNOWS IF I SHOULD DRILL A HOLE IN THE MASTER CYLINDER?

I need help. I am totally discourage of searching informations.

I have changed my Master Cylinder and got rid of the old one. This is the master cylinder for the 20k F53 not the 18 or 15k. It has the Hydro-Max brake booster with it.

On the new Master Cylinder I have installed my new Brake pressure differential valve warning switch since the old one was broken in two when I bought my motorhome 2 years ago.

BUT WHEN I SCREW IT ON THE NEW MASTER CYLINDER, THE HOLE IS A "DEAD END". When I look in the hole it is closed.

So I just woke up this morning and realised that probably the Master Cylinder I have bought is not the right one. This hole is simply blocked and when they put it on a Hydro-Max system, maybe they drill a hole!!!

Here is a picture of a Hydro-max with the master cylinder. The arrow show the Brake pressure differential valve warning switch.



My brake warning light is always on when I connect the harness on this thing.

The sensor is : 6U9Z2B264A or 2B264 or 6U9Z-2B264-A.



The master cylinder I have bought is Cardone 108039. On Rockauto they call it: A-1 CARDONE 108039 {#6U9Z2140A, F81Z2140AA, MC390590} Reman. w/ Reservoir.

I put this master cylinder because it looked like the right one and it was on the rockauto list. 1999 FORD F53 6.8L V10 Master Cylinder | RockAuto

I did not buy it at rockauto but at my local auto parts store. Maybe they sold me a master cylinder that does not support the Differential sensor? They said it is a 108039.

Here is what the Hydro-Max documentation says about the Differential switch sensor:

A differential pressure switch is available. It illuminates a light on the dash panel to warn when there is a pressure differential between the primary and secondary brake circuits caused by a leak in one circuit. This may occur when one circuit leaks or is improperly bled.

Differential Pressure Switch: The differential pressure switch reacts to a loss of master cylinder hydraulic pressure in either side of the split hydraulic system and can illuminate a warning light at the instrument panel. When pressure is lost in either the primary or secondary circuit of the master cylinder, the switch closes. The electrical switch will remain closed until the malfunction is corrected. When both systems develop normal pressure, the switch will return to center and open the electrical switch circuit. A mechanically latched connector is attached to the switch. The switch has two tabs on a common terminal (positive) and is grounded through the master cylinder.


Here is the documentation: http://www.alpinecoachassociation.co...ter Manual.pdf
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Old 06-02-2016, 07:02 PM   #2
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Mine has a number stamped into the passenger side 2239045. Here a link 2239045 BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER to what it looks like.
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Old 06-02-2016, 07:03 PM   #3
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I would not drill it. It's not a pressure switch that measures liquid pressure. One clue is plastic threads, plastic would not hold up to hundreds if not thousands of psi.

I believe there is a plunger inside like a proportioning valve. When the pressure between the front and rear brakes is off-set, the plunger shifts accordingly to activate the switch.



Sometimes the plunger gets stuck to one side after a brake malfunction or in your case a new part. We used to unstick them by getting the plunger to shift the other way by bleeding a front or rear brake as necessary and letting the brake pedal go all the way to the floor. This will cause the plunger to move to the opposite side and usually unstick.
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:04 PM   #4
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Thank you for the answers.

On the picture of the mrt_1111's master cylinder (MASTER CYLINDER 2239045 INTERNATIONAL FORD KENWORTH PETERBILT) I see the sensor hole has another small hole inside. I don't have this little hole so I did not get the right master cylinder.



So I don't have the "proportioning valve" Randalpho is talking about.

Maybe when they rebuilt it, they simply filled the hole with solder.

What do you suggest me to do? Should I change it for a new one with the proper proportionning valve? Or should I just check my oil level before each trip?

On Rockauto.com they sell the same Cardone 10-8039 I have installed. And on their picture I see there is a small hole inside the sensor port just like mrt_1111 has! I got screwed!

I will try to remove the sensor and post a picture of the port tomorrow.
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Old 06-03-2016, 03:56 PM   #5
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Eureka

I am so sorry. The little hole is not blocked like I said but it is normal. I have the right master-cylinder. I mislead everybody.

Probably on the old one I removed last year the little hole was not there because I really remember it was a dead end with no hole!!!

IT WORKS NOW, ... well I think it works. Let me explain what I did.

I have removed the sensor. It has 2 pins that connect to the harness. The harness has two wires. Base on my ohmmeter test, I see that both pins are wire together inside the sensor. I told myself the sensor was probably broken. Then I looked inside the sensor connector and see the pins are like a 2 teeth fork. So they are always together if I saw correclty. Why would someone put two wires to connect on two pins wired together????

So I connected the sensor to the harness while the sensor was not in the Master cylinder. My son was at the driving seat looking at the dash board brake warning light.

I then understood that the only way the light would go on is if the end of the sensor is grounded and if we push it halfway or more (yes from halfway to max push the light is on).



So I was expecting the sensor to work like Randalpho youtube video but it seems a bit different or my sensor is broken.

Anyway, I told myself that probably the sensor was good since the light is off when the pin is not halfway pressed. So I reinstalled it in the master cylinder and the light came on like before. I checked the oil level on both side of the reservoir and it is full level. So I decided to unscrew the sensor one or two turn and the light went out. Problem fixed!!!

I bought this sensor last year on eBay because the one I had when I bought the motorhome was broken in two.

I suppose that normally this sensor comes with a gasket ring and that I did not receive it in the bag. So without a gasket ring the sensor is too deep inside the master cylinder.

I will have to look at pictures on the internet. Or if anyone knows the information about a gasket it is welcome.

I hope this thread will help people diagnose this sensor in the future.

I have five kids under 16 in the motorhome and for the respect of their lifes I felt I had to investigate this thing.
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Old 06-01-2017, 06:11 PM   #6
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I am having the same issue with my hydromax.

FYI, my sensor was broken in two - and there was NOT a gasket on it.

I think your situation may be same as mine...

I replace the broken sensor and the light was on.
Without the sensor installed, the light is off, so electrically all is good.

I took the plug off the front of the master cylinder. Inside there is a nylon spacer / nut. I spun the nut off with a very wide "screwdriver" (I actually used a brake adjustment lever). Once the nylon nut / spacer was out, the pressure differential "sleeve" (I would call it a "shuttle") was exposed. I pushed it in a bit and it moved. Now, when I look into the hole where the sensor screws in, I see a bit of the "valley" of the sleeve exposed. This is the normal position of the sleeve when both the primary and secondary circuit pressures are balanced. The valley allows the switch to relax so the light goes off.

What I now need to figure out if there truly is a pressure difference that pushed the sleeve towards the secondary (front) side...ie: the rear brakes don't have pressure. I recently did a rear brake caliper replacement and it had no issue bleeding the system so I feel good that there is at least some pressure to the rear. I am hoping that the sleeve won't return to center if it is pushed completely to one side or the other until manually reset (like I think I just did).

I suspect by leaving the switch loose, you have essentially eliminated that pressure loss detection mechanism. It probably won't cause harm, since the switch is apparently optional anyway. But, you won't have that added protection of knowing that there is a hydraulic issue, if you aren't sensitive to the change in braking performance.

I am in the middle of addressing this on mine, but found this thread while researching....and wanted to share what I have found so far for your safety.
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Old 06-02-2017, 09:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dav L View Post
I am having the same issue with my hydromax.

FYI, my sensor was broken in two - and there was NOT a gasket on it.

I think your situation may be same as mine...

I replace the broken sensor and the light was on.
Without the sensor installed, the light is off, so electrically all is good.

I took the plug off the front of the master cylinder. Inside there is a nylon spacer / nut. I spun the nut off with a very wide "screwdriver" (I actually used a brake adjustment lever). Once the nylon nut / spacer was out, the pressure differential "sleeve" (I would call it a "shuttle") was exposed. I pushed it in a bit and it moved. Now, when I look into the hole where the sensor screws in, I see a bit of the "valley" of the sleeve exposed. This is the normal position of the sleeve when both the primary and secondary circuit pressures are balanced. The valley allows the switch to relax so the light goes off.

What I now need to figure out if there truly is a pressure difference that pushed the sleeve towards the secondary (front) side...ie: the rear brakes don't have pressure. I recently did a rear brake caliper replacement and it had no issue bleeding the system so I feel good that there is at least some pressure to the rear. I am hoping that the sleeve won't return to center if it is pushed completely to one side or the other until manually reset (like I think I just did).

I suspect by leaving the switch loose, you have essentially eliminated that pressure loss detection mechanism. It probably won't cause harm, since the switch is apparently optional anyway. But, you won't have that added protection of knowing that there is a hydraulic issue, if you aren't sensitive to the change in braking performance.

I am in the middle of addressing this on mine, but found this thread while researching....and wanted to share what I have found so far for your safety.
I will bleed my brakes in the next month and then try to screw the sensor completly. I will keep reading your follow-ups.
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Old 06-03-2017, 08:01 PM   #8
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I bled first the rears and then the fronts. No light, no gasket, and it is screwed tight to the master cylinder.

So, I suspect when you installed yours, you may have pressed on the brakes with the lines bled and the bleader tight. This pushed the sleeve towards the far side. And for some reason, when you bled the other circuit, the sleeve didn't go back to neutral.

So, you might want to take off the bolt at the front of the master cylinder, carefully uncrew the white nylon spacer, and carefully push the sleeve towards the rear. Then, put the spacer back in, screw it in till fairly tight, put the cover bolt back in, and bleed the brakes again.

This time don't really push on the brakes with the bleeders closed until both circuits are bled.

Try that.
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Old 07-01-2017, 06:38 AM   #9
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1999 F53

Having work done by a clumsy mechanic who has broken the switch. Can anyone give us the part number and where to get one from.

Also
Can the RV and Brakes be used without this switch, until we get one.

Thank you in advance for any Help.
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Old 07-01-2017, 06:48 AM   #10
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If its the differential switch, the brakes will perform normally without it.

HOWEVER do not let this go as it gives you a warning that you have a problem with 1/2 of your braking system.

If you lose front or rear brake pressure, this switch tells you via a warning light that there's a difference in pressure, and gives you a warning.
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Old 07-01-2017, 06:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiter21 View Post
If its the differential switch, the brakes will perform normally without it.

HOWEVER do not let this go as it gives you a warning that you have a problem with 1/2 of your braking system.

If you lose front or rear brake pressure, this switch tells you via a warning light that there's a difference in pressure, and gives you a warning.

Thanks you
Do you know part number and where to get one.
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Old 07-01-2017, 07:07 AM   #12
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If its the one in the photo, this MIGHT be the part number.

C8AZ-2B264-A

..
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Old 07-01-2017, 07:35 AM   #13
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It's the style shape in the black photo.
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Old 07-01-2017, 08:10 AM   #14
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I think thats a fairly common switch used in Ford products
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