Lifter and Cam Issue on 7.3 Godzilla

[Rob_M]

Originally Posted by jackreno

I just ordered a 4 oz bottle of this product, will only add 2 oz to the 7.3 to help reduce any lifter/cam issue.

That’s for flat tappet cams and lifters that will not help roller lifters at all.

[F4Gary]

Originally Posted by jackreno

I just ordered a 4 oz bottle of this product, will only add 2 oz to the 7.3 to help reduce any lifter/cam issue.

Do not use that. You have roller lifters and don't need the added zinc. You will ruin your catalytic converter.
Zinc is only needed in flat tappet cams which is generally pre 1986-87.


Just use a modern 5w30 name brand oil.

[shootist]

Originally Posted by F4Gary

Do not use that. You have roller lifters and don't need the added zinc. You will ruin your catalytic converter.
Zinc is only needed in flat tappet cams which is generally pre 1986-87

Just use a modern 5w30 name brand oil.

Wow, where do you get this ruin your cat stuff? Zinc was in all oils not so long ago. It’s main function is to keep dry start damage from occurring. Oils don’t have enough in them to do the job anymore.
The only way the zinc can get to your cat is if you have an oil burner. Not even sure it would hurt the cat then.

[Rob_M]

Originally Posted by shootist

Wow, where do you get this ruin your cat stuff? Zinc was in all oils not so long ago. It’s main function is to keep dry start damage from occurring. Oils don’t have enough in them to do the job anymore.

The only way the zinc can get to your cat is if you have an oil burner. Not even sure it would hurt the cat then.

The only reason the zink was in oil is it was the only additive that would make a flat tappet lifter live during break-in. My friend’s father was an engineer at GM when they were experimenting with oil additives.

Zink additive in oil has zero benefit to a modern engine with roller lifters.

[shootist]

Originally Posted by Rob_M

The only reason the zink was in oil is it was the only additive that would make a flat tappet lifter live during break-in. My friend’s father was an engineer at GM when they were experimenting with oil additives.

Zink additive in oil has zero benefit to a modern engine with roller lifters.

Do some reading.

[Psneeld]

I just finished some research/reading...doesn't seem like many agree that a zinc additive is needed for modern engines and that it's ash if the quantity of zinc is high enough could be bad for CATs.

Now the million dollar question to me is if the Godzilla engine is built like older engines does anyone have some third party engineering internet links that would specifically address why or why not zinc would be needed as an additive for the Godzilla?

[Rob_M]

Originally Posted by Psneeld

I just finished some research/reading...doesn't seem like many agree that a zinc additive is needed for modern engines and that it's ash if the quantity of zinc is high enough could be bad for CATs.



Now the million dollar question to me is if the Godzilla engine is built like older engines does anyone have some third party engineering internet links that would specifically address why or why not zinc would be needed as an additive for the Godzilla?

It has roller lifters. End of story. Only flat tappet cams need zink.

[Rob_M]

Originally Posted by shootist

Do some reading.

I have read plenty. Apparently more than you and longer than you. I grew up with flat tappet cams and understand what the break in procedure does to the metal aided by the zink additive. It’s steel rubbing against steel and hardening it as it forms a wear pattern. Completely different from a steel roller rolling over a steel oval shape. There is never steel sliding or scuffing steel unless a roller gets sideways or locks up. No additive can help that situation.

The hardened surface on the zilla cams and / or roller wheels is likely failing because of a cheap or improper hard-surface process to get around running more expensive solid billet steel components. Zink won’t help this situation.

[F4Gary]

Originally Posted by shootist

Wow, where do you get this ruin your cat stuff? Zinc was in all oils not so long ago. It’s main function is to keep dry start damage from occurring. Oils don’t have enough in them to do the job anymore.
The only way the zinc can get to your cat is if you have an oil burner. Not even sure it would hurt the cat then.

It's widely know amongst classic car owners. They have been taking the zddp out of gas engine motor oil for many years. That allowed the engineers to design more efficient cats. They don't like zinc.

[Rob_M]

Originally Posted by F4Gary

It's widely know amongst classic car owners. They have been taking the zddp out of gas engine motor oil for many years. That allowed the engineers to design more efficient cats. They don't like zinc.

I don’t think the oxygen sensors like zink either. I didn’t know about the cats.

[jackreno]

Originally Posted by F4Gary

Do not use that. You have roller lifters and don't need the added zinc. You will ruin your catalytic converter.
Zinc is only needed in flat tappet cams which is generally pre 1986-87.


Just use a modern 5w30 name brand oil.

Most RV's don't get very many miles per year,

Most of the lifter failure is around 30,000 to 45,000 miles so that means most might be outside the warranty when they get to even 45,000 miles.

I have 20,000 miles on a 2021 but my miles will be a lot less going forward since I moved up north where I like to travel, so I want to try and add any extra protection to the motor in case it is a lubrication issue.

There is going to be some very mad motorhome owners with a bad motor with 40,000 miles but is just past the 5 year warranty.

Average cost to replace the motor today is around $12000,00.

I have already changed my oil every 7000 miles with Mobile One full synthetic but might move it up to 5000 miles and add 2 oz bottle of zinc just in case.

And if I ruin a Catalytic Converter in a couple years so what it will cost a ton less than a new 7.3 and the labor to install.

My warranty runs out in 2 years and 10 months.

[JoeJunior]

This is a long forum.

Has anyone signed into BobIsTheOilGuy.com to see what's being said about this specific problem with Godzillas.

That's where all the oil engineers and Ford Motor Company guys hang out. It's a very interesting place to read about any subject on oiling.

[1972VWbus]

Over the years there has been an overabundance of engine oil myths. Here are some facts you may want to pass along to customers to help debunk the fiction behind these myths.

The Starburst Oil Myth -- The latest myth promoted by the antique and collector car press says that new Starburst/ API SM engine oils (called Starburst for the shape of the symbol on the container) are bad for older engines because the amount of anti-wear additive in them has been reduced. The anti-wear additive being discussed is zinc dithiophosphate (ZDP).

Before debunking this myth, we need to look at the history of ZDP usage. For over 60 years, ZDP has been used as an additive in engine oils to provide wear protection and oxidation stability.

ZDP was first added to engine oil to control copper/lead bearing corrosion. Oils with a phosphorus level in the 0.03% range passed a corrosion test introduced in 1942.

In the mid-1950s, when the use of high-lift camshafts increased the potential for scuffing and wear, the phosphorus level contributed by ZDP was increased to the 0.08% range.

In addition, the industry developed a battery of oil tests (called sequences), two of which were valve-train scuffing and wear tests.

A higher level of ZDP was good for flat-tappet valve-train scuffing and wear, but it turned out that more was not better. Although break-in scuffing was reduced by using more phosphorus, longer-term wear increased when phosphorus rose above 0.14%. And, at about 0.20% phosphorus, the ZDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling.

By the 1970s, increased antioxidancy was needed to protect the oil in high-load engines, which otherwise could thicken to a point where the engine could no longer pump it. Because ZDP was an inexpensive and effective antioxidant, it was used to place the phosphorus level in the 0.10% range.

However, phosphorus is a poison for exhaust catalysts. So, ZDP levels have been reduced over the last 10-15 years. It's now down to a maximum of 0.08% for Starburst oils. This was supported by the introduction of modern ashless antioxidants that contain no phosphorus.

Enough history. Let's get back to the myth that Starburst oils are no good for older engines. The argument put forth is that while these oils work perfectly well in modern, gasoline engines equipped with roller camshafts, they will cause catastrophic wear in older engines equipped with flat-tappet camshafts.

The facts say otherwise.

Backward compatibility was of great importance when the Starburst oil standards were developed by a group of experts from the OEMs, oil companies, and oil additive companies. In addition, multiple oil and additive companies ran no-harm tests on older engines with the new oils; and no problems were uncovered.

The new Starburst specification contains two valve-train wear tests. All Starburst oil formulations must pass these two tests.

- Sequence IVA tests for camshaft scuffing and wear using a single overhead camshaft engine with slider finger (not roller) followers.

- Sequence IIIG evaluates cam and lifter wear using a V6 engine with a flat-tappet system, similar to those used in the 1980s.
Those who hold onto the myth are ignoring the fact that the new Starburst oils contain about the same percentage of ZDP as the oils that solved the camshaft scuffing and wear issues back in the 1950s. (True, they do contain less ZDP than the oils that solved the oil thickening issues in the 1960s, but that's because they now contain high levels of ashless antioxidants not commercially available in the 1960s.)

Despite the pains taken in developing special flat-tappet camshaft wear tests that these new oils must pass and the fact that the ZDP level of these new oils is comparable to the level found necessary to protect flat-tappet camshafts in the past, there will still be those who want to believe the myth that new oils will wear out older engines.

Like other myths before it, history teaches us that it will probably take 60 or 70 years for this one to die also.

[shootist]

https://www.paulo.com/resources/zinc...ty-spotlight/#

Has everything to do with dry starts. Learn to separate eco from reality. The chemistry isn’t much different in what you’re trying to accomplish. We use it on metal because it sticks.