Loose King Pins?

[Dave-Oh]

Originally Posted by BFlinn181

So sorry of your continued issues. The dash heater is like an automotive heater. It takes coolant and runs it through a heater core (small radiator) There's no rheostat to my knowledge in an HVAC system. The various fan speeds are created by big resistors that reduce voltage for each different speed. A rheostat is a variable resistor used to reduce voltage, like the lever on a toy train transformer or the dimmer control of dashboard lights.

Poor heat could be a result of the heater control valve not opening all the way, a kinked heater hose, or even the A/C being on and competing with the heat. The amount of heat is controlled by fan speed and the control valve being partially closed to reduce coolant flow. The various vacuum motors that control air flow could be not working properly and not directing the heated air where you want it. Often when vacuum is lost, all air flow is diverted to the defrost vents as a safety measure. Max heating will be created if you set the dash control on 'recirculate' rather than heating the air from outside. In the small interior space of a pick up or auto, the recirculate setting can quickly build up moisture and fog the windows, but in a big RV it usually isn't a problem.

BFlinn181,

Yeah, thanks - I don't think he said riostat --- that's probably bad recall on my part. I'm pretty sure it's the heater control valve - seems like there's not enough hot water going through the heater core, when you turn the fan speed down the air does get warmer, so it's the valve-thingie that regulates the flow to the heater core, I'm thinking, so you're right.

Wife wants to take a little trip over new years - we can't go far, so I'll need heat while traveling if we're able to make a go of it.

[BFlinn181]

A bad heater control valve makes more sense. You can travel with the furnace running, often a necessity if you don't have a second heater core for the engine heater. (Not often found on RVs, but every school bus I ever drove had multiple heaters)

By the way, if you get the same 'swift' service you've gotten already, any garage mechanic can change out the heater control valve. Yes, you'd have to pay then try for reimbursement, but at least it would be done by a mechanic of your choosing, not the proven Bozos the Ford dealer has.

[TeJay]

My DW has always said to kill them with kindness and you've proven that it will work. I just expect to much from technicians because I know what is involved and my students knew how to diagnose before replacing part after part.

Thanks for the quality update. Maybe you'll get somewhere with this last guy. Seems to know what he's doing and perhaps what can be done.

I guess this is where your lemon law letter has gotten you?? Or is Ford or Thor still trying to resolve it so you can keep the coach??

TeJay

[Dave-Oh]

Originally Posted by TeJay

My DW has always said to kill them with kindness and you've proven that it will work. I just expect to much from technicians because I know what is involved and my students knew how to diagnose before replacing part after part.

Thanks for the quality update. Maybe you'll get somewhere with this last guy. Seems to know what he's doing and perhaps what can be done.

I guess this is where your lemon law letter has gotten you?? Or is Ford or Thor still trying to resolve it so you can keep the coach??

TeJay

Ford MH division transferred me to Ford Customer Care. Ford Customer Care said they'll get back to me after first saying' "I hear you've got a motorhome you want to get out from under". That was over 3 weeks ago.

No lemon law letter. They heard from the law firm telling them to preserve all communications and don't contact our client directly.

Thor has never stopped trying. Ford, at first, was willing, but unable, then seemed to punt me to another division for further "help" and went dark after trying to call me on some notion that I was in over my head or something.

To be fair, the Thor field rep and I were jawing and he did say that there are a class of "professional lemon law buyers" out there who get a coach, use it for a year, then start complaining that they've got a lemon and want a refund ( he made it clear that I was obviously not one of those). I disabused Ford regarding my request for a refund by 1. Pointing out the problem, number of visits to various venues including three Ford dealers AND 2. that I paid cash so there's nothing to "get out from under" and they didn't call me back as promised. That's when I pulled the trigger on the law firm's involvement.

I don't want to make money, inflict retribution or get out from under anything. I want to go camping with my wife and crazy dog. We're tired and overworked and want the promise of a change of scenery and a pleasant, social outing with new and interesting people and places. This should have been fixed the first time. This is what I've been using our camping time to do. Trying to get it fixed - the way it should have come from the factory.

I had to get a lawyer involved because Ford stopped trying and started accusing.

Last note: the guy from Thor, Mike, who originally had told me that Thor had "nothing to do with the chassis, we have three warranties on the coach and Thor has nothing to do with two of them" has been let go, as relayed to me by several folks at Thor.

The saga continues.

[TeJay]

Dave,

You've done this all as correctly as one can. My hat is off to you. I know, that and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee maybe. You just want the thing fixed and all this over with. We'd all love to hear a positive outcome to this story.

If anybody has a similar issue you have laid the ground work for the proper way to handle it. That is one positive outcome from this mess. For that I thank you.

It is sure not your fault that Ford has dropped the ball. I don't know what, if anything can be done about that but for sure something should. Ford needs to know that a lot of individuals are aware of how poorly they handled this issue. If you want and can advise how we can help to do anything I know I will. Maybe a letter to Customer Service? If you don't think we should that's your call.

We will be in Maine next summer probably in the same CG where you stayed (Maine Stays I think). I know you had some good eats up there on your one extended trip with the vibrating coach.

Anyway the DW has a 50th reunion planned so that's where we are headed in July and early August. Our Daughter and family have a house rented in either Winter or Prospect harbor so we'll meet up with them as well. Maybe you'll have your coach fixed and can enjoy another lobster or two. Would love to meet and talk about anything but coach repairs.

Take care and thanks for the updates.

TeJay

[Dave-Oh]

Originally Posted by TeJay

Dave,

You've done this all as correctly as one can. My hat is off to you. I know, that and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee maybe. You just want the thing fixed and all this over with. We'd all love to hear a positive outcome to this story.

If anybody has a similar issue you have laid the ground work for the proper way to handle it. That is one positive outcome from this mess. For that I thank you.

It is sure not your fault that Ford has dropped the ball. I don't know what, if anything can be done about that but for sure something should. Ford needs to know that a lot of individuals are aware of how poorly they handled this issue. If you want and can advise how we can help to do anything I know I will. Maybe a letter to Customer Service? If you don't think we should that's your call.

We will be in Maine next summer probably in the same CG where you stayed (Maine Stays I think). I know you had some good eats up there on your one extended trip with the vibrating coach.

Anyway the DW has a 50th reunion planned so that's where we are headed in July and early August. Our Daughter and family have a house rented in either Winter or Prospect harbor so we'll meet up with them as well. Maybe you'll have your coach fixed and can enjoy another lobster or two. Would love to meet and talk about anything but coach repairs.

Take care and thanks for the updates.

TeJay

TeJay, Thanks! You and others on this forum have kept me focused and sane. I would love some lobster and to do some more hiking in Maine. They have a great car museum as well (pre-1930's). Would love to meet up with you...we also have a proposal to meet up with a friend at Crater Lake in July. Need the RV first.

I'm optimistic that there'll be a happy ending here. I'll do updates as I can.

Finally, Ford needs to know that their "Customer Care" Division and the technical ineptness of 3 of their dealership's are not a credit to their product line (and we haven't even addressed the QC in their factory that got me to this point).

I would say that their Motorhome Division, who actually tried to get a diagnosis and repair for me, is actually not being supported by Ford's other moving parts. Without technical ability at the mechanic level, and a place to actually elevate issues to, it amounts to little more than lip service. Ford should get a get a clue if they're serious about customer service and quality, AND should link their data bases together so all divisions can see what's been going on.

Right now it seems like their "customer care" division thinks all of the customers referred to them with problems are grasping, irresponsible morons who didn't know what they they were getting into. They also act like a 3 year warranty means they have 3 years to resolve a given problem because those customers are all retired and have the time to endlessly travel hither and yon seeking repairs from the next venue after the previous one strikes out.

How has this gone so far (short version)? Let's see....

When repeated visits got out of hand:

1. Thor sent a rep out to verify the vibration and see if there was something else they could do.
2. The dealership tried to balance, swap rims and replaced 2 tires.
3. Goodyear expressed their concern and as a goodwill gesture replaced ALL of the tires at a Goodyear Wingfoot Truck store.
4. Ford transferred me to "Customer Care" Division who basically accused me of being overextended financially and promised to call me back - still waiting.

Everyone has stepped up except the one with the defective part. I'm just one guy, so who cares?

Well, now I'm just one guy with a defective RV and a law firm representing him. I'm happy to go to court and relate this tale to a judge.

[BFlinn181]

Originally Posted by Dave-Oh

Everyone has stepped up except the one with the defective part. I'm just one guy, so who cares?

Well, now I'm just one guy with a defective RV and a law firm representing him. I'm happy to go to court and relate this tale to a judge.

There's also 18,000+ views of this thread. Ford should care about that, especially since rumor has it Workhorse is going to get back in the RV chassis business.

SO WHO CARES? We do!! And we vote with our money!

[Dave-Oh]

Originally Posted by BFlinn181

There's also 18,000+ views of this thread. Ford should care about that, especially since rumor has it Workhorse is going to get back in the RV chassis business.

SO WHO CARES? We do!! And we vote with our money!

Amen! I thought I'd never say this, but GO WORKHORSE! Ford needs competition and Workhorse has the mojo!

[Dave-Oh]

After the Thor Rep came out and confirmed the vibration and mentioned it was possible that there was an alignment issue (which wouldn't affect vibration in any case), I took it to a local shop I found that does RV's, light trucks and such and had an alignment and the centramatics installed.

It was a bust. No change in the vibration, really. They did say that the tire inflation should be on the lower side as the Goodyears are truck tires and very, very stiff (they recommended Michelins for RVs). So I checked inflation when I got home and they were all about 100-105 psi. Thor recommends 85 psi on my chassis (16K lbs) and so I deflated them all to spec and drove it again.

No love there either. The tech at Centramatics did say that there was a chance that the balancers might amplify a non-balance problem ("tracking"), but I don' know that it's different, really. The deflation to 85psi did improve the tracking a bit as I noticed that the centramatics did seem to increase wandering/groove following. Deflation stopped that.

I guess I picked a bad year to stop drinking.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Dave-Oh

After the Thor Rep came out and confirmed the vibration and mentioned it was possible that there was an alignment issue (which wouldn't affect vibration in any case), I took it to a local shop I found that does RV's, light trucks and such and had an alignment and the centramatics installed.

It was a bust. No change in the vibration, really. They did say that the tire inflation should be on the lower side as the Goodyears are truck tires and very, very stiff (they recommended Michelins for RVs). So I checked inflation when I got home and they were all about 100-105 psi. Thor recommends 85 psi on my chassis (16K lbs) and so I deflated them all to spec and drove it again.

No love there either. The tech at Centramatics did say that there was a chance that the balancers might amplify a non-balance problem ("tracking"), but I don' know that it's different, really. The deflation to 85psi did improve the tracking a bit as I noticed that the centramatics did seem to increase wandering/groove following. Deflation stopped that.

I guess I picked a bad year to stop drinking.

I am sad for you, Dave. You have a new rig and you are new to irv2. With 88 posts you are still without a functioning rig.

You mentioned the cupping on a tire after only a 1000 miles. Any tire ware of that sort in that short of travel distance is indicating a problem with that wheel, in my opinion. I have see a bad shock cause a tire to dribble like a basket ball when going down the road. No in the shop testing can be trusted. Again, my opinion. Have the front shocks been replaced? (Too many posts to remember or search through.) Has a 4 wheel alignment been done? Are your frame rails in alignment?

In truth? I really want to see you get your rig replaced under the Lemon Law. That would make me want to .

Sadly I continue to monitor this thread in hopes you will post some great news.

Rick Y

[LeRoi2]

I just did a search on this forum for F 53 chassis problems, and now I am even more concerned. I have a brand new THOR Windsport 34F. I have owned it 2 months, and have not been able to use it even once!

The latest frustration began 2 weeks ago, when I finally got my MH out of the dealer repair. Driving home, 4K miles, and I can't keep it in a straight line. Wonders all over the road. I take it to my local tire place, which is a large retail/commercial independent. He balances all the tires, but when he goes to align, it won't hold. All of the king pins are worn out! He tells me it's a first for him, 30 years in the business.

I call around to finally find a Ford dealer that will examine it. Sure enough, they agree, and all work, including alignment is included. It took them 11 days to do the work. I picked it up today. IT DRIVES MUCH WORSE! It's all over the road, much worse than before. The Service Manager had already told me that they had sent the pins out to be pressed. When I called to find out what the heck they did to my MH, he admitted they had sent it out for that too!

He said bring it back and they would fix it, again, but what little confidence I had in that dealer is now gone. I sat down and searched this. I read the first 7-8 posts with growing dread. I skipped here to the end looking for a happy ending.

I had already discussed Lemon law with my wife. We have owned it 11 weeks, and it has been in the shop the entire time, in an undrivable condition. Now I need to take the time to read the rest of the 225 or so emails.

If you could private message me your Lemon law attorney info too that would be great. Some people have advised pursuing a UCC warranty of merchantability as an easier, quicker route. That is, what they sold you NEVER worked in a way that allowed you use, or enjoyment of an item, for which it was designed. The AG's in some states facilitate this.

I guess I wish you, and all of us, good luck in dealing with these poor construction/QA issues.

[Dave-Oh]

Originally Posted by LeRoi2

I just did a search on this forum for F 53 chassis problems, and now I am even more concerned. I have a brand new THOR Windsport 34F. I have owned it 2 months, and have not been able to use it even once!

The latest frustration began 2 weeks ago, when I finally got my MH out of the dealer repair. Driving home, 4K miles, and I can't keep it in a straight line. Wonders all over the road. I take it to my local tire place, which is a large retail/commercial independent. He balances all the tires, but when he goes to align, it won't hold. All of the king pins are worn out! He tells me it's a first for him, 30 years in the business.

I call around to finally find a Ford dealer that will examine it. Sure enough, they agree, and all work, including alignment is included. It took them 11 days to do the work. I picked it up today. IT DRIVES MUCH WORSE! It's all over the road, much worse than before. The Service Manager had already told me that they had sent the pins out to be pressed. When I called to find out what the heck they did to my MH, he admitted they had sent it out for that too!

He said bring it back and they would fix it, again, but what little confidence I had in that dealer is now gone. I sat down and searched this. I read the first 7-8 posts with growing dread. I skipped here to the end looking for a happy ending.

I had already discussed Lemon law with my wife. We have owned it 11 weeks, and it has been in the shop the entire time, in an undrivable condition. Now I need to take the time to read the rest of the 225 or so emails.

If you could private message me your Lemon law attorney info too that would be great. Some people have advised pursuing a UCC warranty of merchantability as an easier, quicker route. That is, what they sold you NEVER worked in a way that allowed you use, or enjoyment of an item, for which it was designed. The AG's in some states facilitate this.

I guess I wish you, and all of us, good luck in dealing with these poor construction/QA issues.

LeRoi,

Don't despair yet, but do keep your service records and notes of who you spoke with and phone numbers.

call Thor Customer Care 877-855-2867 - And have the Last 8 of VIN Ready and review the issues with them to keep them apprised of your issues (my rep is Mike). They will refer you to Ford customer care, Motorhome Division customer assistance 800-444-3311. Report your issues and displeasure about your Ford dealer and they will find you another dealer who can handle your issues. Get your case number.

They will try to help, be nice and explain carefully. Keep records. I will give you my attorney's info shortly. Your issue sounds completely fixable and it's under your Ford chassis warranty - 3 years, 36K miles. Let MH Division know you'd prefer a shop that will fix it on site the first time, not send out and not check their work after. This is a safety issue (steering).

You are looking at a Federal Law breach of warranty case, even if the lemon law doesn't cover your rig in your state. Be positive. It will get fixed.

[BFlinn181]

LeRoi2, Dave is in Maryland, you're in California. They have substantially different lemon laws.

Maryland's law says "The law provides that a dealer or manufacturer must correct a defect within 30 days after the consumer writes to the manufacturer by certified mail. If the manufacturer or dealer is unable to do so, the consumer is entitled to a refund or replacement vehicle."

California's law is much more vague: "The California Lemon Law requires a vehicle manufacturer that is unable to repair a vehicle to conform to the manufacturer’s
express warranty after a reasonable number of repair attempts to replace or repurchase the vehicle." (emphasis mine) In addition, CA's law only applies to "Vehicles purchased or leased in California from a retail seller." You mentioned driving home 4K miles. Did you buy it in California or another state? California also has a voluntary arbitration process they encourage you to use.

http://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/englemn.pdf

Maryland Attorney General - Consumer Publications

[rvbunz]

I posted my issues with my King Pins awile back, and the issues I had with the dealer. If you read my post you'll see all I went through and what I had to do on my own to get back on the road. The dealer believes it was a manufacturing defect because part numbers were changed for the spindle and king pins if I recall correctly. I had a local machine repair a spindle the dealer messed up and he had to work on the bushings to get the king pin to go in correctly. All said and done I'm up and running and all is well. I did complain to Ford about my coach sitting at the dealer for seven weeks and they agreed and paid me for one and a half months payments. Although it was a stressful period, the stepped up and took care of it. Stay on them it can and will be resolved. It can be fixed, just too bad you and others like us have to go through so much and do some of the work on our own. Good Luck