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Old 09-17-2022, 08:39 PM   #1
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My P0171/P0174/P2197 adventure (2006 E-450 cutaway, pic)

I started getting these this year, but only at idle. Clearing the code after getting the engine warmed up and starting a trip, and the engine never throws the code until the next time I start the engine.

No big deal, it's a vacuum leak, right? I checked the short-term fuel trim at idle, it never goes negative (stays around 25-30%). Above 1000 RPM, the short-term fuel trim drops to the single digits. Checked MAF, air cleaner, air intake system and I'm not seeing any damage or anything that could obviously be a problem. MAF appears clean, but the cone on the air filter had come off so I replaced the air filter.

Pull the doghouse, and one of the vacuum lines from the intake manifold (just above the "fake" output) to another plastic part above the left-rear of the engine is so checked it is probably is leaking like a sieve. Replace that with generic, reinforced rubber hose. Still throwing P0171/P0174. While the PCV valve hose looks like it's the newer style (clip connectors on each end) and doesn't look like it's a problem, but I went ahead and replaced the PCV value and hose.

Success! Short-term fuel trim goes all the way down to -25% both banks, I think I've got the problem solved, but I wait.

Ugh, the engine starts to idle rough and dies. That's new. Double-check the PCV valve and connection (the PCV valve didn't come with the extra flange to go into the valve cover, so I had transferred that from the old one). It doesn't appear to be leaking. Try again. Same result. I wonder if it's something in that upper vacuum line I replaced.

I look at the connector to the intake. It spins-and wobbles. That's probably my leak, right? I've got some tape for fixing leaks, let's try it on that. Wrap up the "wobbly" part and try again. Better, it runs for 10 minutes, fuel trims go negative and positive, it's fixed, right? Then the engine dies again and I've got P0171 and P2197 codes.

Before I start replacing O2 sensors, I have a real concern about that upper vacuum fitting. The tape seemed to help but I know it's just a temporary fix and I really want it fixed so I don't have to worry about it again.

So, what is this fitting (above the short hose in the picture, it has the new hose attached to it, sorry about the black tape right next to the plenum), shouldn't it be air-tight, and can I replace it without tearing the intake apart?
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Old 09-17-2022, 09:43 PM   #2
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After you fix the vacuum leaks buy a spray can of seafoam to spray in the intake after the throttle body sensor. And put 1 or 2 cans of seafoam in the gas tank after you use the spray. You'll be amazed at what it can do.
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Old 09-23-2022, 11:30 AM   #3
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Well, I finally figured out what the "part" was - it was just a nipple to convert a rubber hose to a "positive latch" type of connection. Removed the nipple and the new hose fits right on the existing connection.

Fuel trims go positive/negative now, but when the trims go negative the engine almost dies. Looking at the O2 sensor output, it looks like O2 sensor on bank 2 never goes rich (bank 1 toggles between the two). So, bad hoses + bad O2 sensor?

I'll let the engine cool for a while before I tackle that one.
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Old 09-23-2022, 01:52 PM   #4
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New O2 sensor (Bosch) ordered, will be here this afternoon (in local warehouse).

So, I started working on removing the existing O2 sensor. I hit it with some PBBlaster an hour ago. Hit it again a few minutes ago, tapped the sensor (hey, it's bad already anyway), and with my "I'm not asking 18-inch breaker bar" I've got the old sensor out waiting for the new one to install this afternoon.

Yes, i'll put on anti-seize (if there isn't any already, every one I've bought in the last 5 years has had it) before I put the new sensor in.
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Old 09-23-2022, 05:33 PM   #5
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Back to the drawing board.

Now, instead of just P0171/P0174, I'm also getting P2197 and P2195. Fuel trims seem OK, but now idle is ugly.

I'm going to check the other end of that bad vacuum hose (probably has another one of those worn out nipple connectors), and then see if cleaning the MAF has any positive effect.

What do they say, when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging?
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Old 09-24-2022, 03:29 PM   #6
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This morning's adventure.

I've erased codes (again) and started the engine. Every time the O2 sensors go rich, the short-term fuel trims go WAY negative (like -25%), the RPMs drop, and the it struggles to stay running, even after the O2 sensors go back to lean. It doesn't die (unlike yesterday...) but RPMs drop and the engine basically becomes very lazy about throttle inputs (e.g. adding throttle doesn't help - which I understand). It hasn't thrown codes today, but I'm not sure because it didn't throw codes immediately yesterday, only after I drove it for a bit.

I'm getting between 7.9 and 10.9 inHg vacuum at idle (that seems WAY low). I still haven't found where the vacuum hose from the engine to the brake power boost is-so I suspect that hose has disintegrated and that's my "vacuum leak" (I replaced the hose to the interior a couple of years ago, but that didn't have any Ts on the hose that I found).

I also took apart the intake from the air filter to the throttle body. No obvious leaks there-but also no obvious take-offs to the brake booster. There is a hose going from the driver's side valve cover to the intake, but they don't seem to be leaking, and there's no obvious holes anywhere in the intake.

Help!!!

P.S. I found out the number on those nipple connectors, they're a "PA12 GF30" connector.
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Old 09-25-2022, 12:24 AM   #7
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More digging this afternoon.

I disconnected and removed the battery and battery tray. Nothing under there other than the washer fluid bottle. No vacuum lines I could see. There's not even room under the blower housing for a vacuum reservoir.

I've still got the battery disconnected, I'll reconnect it tomorrow and see what happens-but I don't have a lot of optimism that the problem will be gone.

I'm not sure what is going on for the brake booster. I don't see the typical (pancake) brake booster, but there is something between the master cylinder and the firewall, two of the lines from that go somewhere under the engine, the third line connects to the power steering fluid line. Also, the brake booster looks like it's newer than 2006?

I moved the coolant tank, felt around the booster area for any connectors without lines, but couldn't feel anything.

I'm surprised nobody has really commented on this thread-other than the person who said "try Seafoam once everything is fixed." Internet wise people, where are you?
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Old 09-25-2022, 03:30 PM   #8
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idle

Probably need to go through these one by one and eliminate possibilities
For vacuum leaks you should be able to spray something (like WD40) around connectors and see if the idle changes (My class A has a vacuum canister near the right front wheel)

Check wires visually to o2 sensors, might need to test voltage AT the sensor use sensor ground wire not metal ground to see if it agrees with ODB voltage

test fuel pressure(have you changed fuel filter YET?)

Not mentioned but I wonder if the IAC(Idle air control) could be bad /gummed up

Exhaust leaks can drive it lean

Frayed oxygen sensor circuit wiring/connectors
Faulty bank 2 heated oxygen sensor 1
Malfunctioning fuel injector
Vacuum leaks
Fuel pressure too low
Debris in Mass Airflow Sensor
Exhaust leak
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Old 09-25-2022, 05:55 PM   #9
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Checked all of the vacuum connections (I cut out the vacuum system to the cabin a couple of years ago because of only defroster, now hose goes around firewall into cabin, and thereís a whole new vacuum system behind the passenger dashboard).

No I havenít changed the fuel filter, I guess thatís the next thing.

Captured this trace this afternoon of ECU driving fuel trims to -25% after O2 sensors went rich. The spikes are where the engine revved and dropped back to normal idle.
Click image for larger version

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Views:	8
Size:	100.4 KB
ID:	377354

Also, WTF is this above cyl 5???
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5766.JPG
Views:	13
Size:	587.3 KB
ID:	377355
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Old 09-25-2022, 06:10 PM   #10
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My P0171/P0174/P2197 adventure (2006 E-450 cutaway, pic)

Also, Iíve visually (and lightly mechanically by gently tugging on the wire connectors) checked the wiring to the O2 sensors. The O2 sensor for bank 2 was bad (never going rich) while the new one works fine. Iíve double-checked all of the vacuum lines, they have a vacuum on idle. Oh and thereís no obvious debris on the MAF.

Iím really hoping itís not the intake gasket, that will be a pain to replace in-place. I also guess that if itís not the fuel filter, it could be the fuel pump, but I would expect that to show under throttle-not at idle.

Where is the Idle Air Control?
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Old 09-25-2022, 06:22 PM   #11
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Seems like there should be about 20 inches vacuum at idle:


https://www.irv2.com/forums/f23/vacu...10-545819.html
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Old 09-26-2022, 08:29 AM   #12
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IAC

https://www.ford-trucks.com/how-tos/...c-valve-430372

Also I wouldn't just jump into replacing the fuel pump, test the output with a gauge , even if low can still be other things like burnt contacts in relay, relay socket , bad ground , etc, etc


also join https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum49/ good info on v10 and good help there

good luck
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Old 09-26-2022, 10:59 AM   #13
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Ok simple basic test on fuel trims, clear adaptive tables, key off, remove air filter, start and watch fuel trims if they start to go negative shut down, clear adaptive tables again, key off disconnect maf sensor and start engine again and watch fuel trims if trims go negative your still getting too much fuel.
Fuel trims are the inverse of what you think...negative means its trying to lean out...positive fuel trim is adding fuel due to lean condition.
Hope this helps
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Old 09-26-2022, 11:57 AM   #14
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check fuel pressure


pretty sure your brakes are hydroboost so no vacuum line used
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