Rear Sway Bars versus Track Bar...???

[Drifter]

CHF = Cheap handling fix, By moving the mounting points of the front sway bar to a new position.

[TeJay]

Here are some pics showing how to do the CHF.

Instead of just moving the attaching link position from the outer hole to the inner hole I built a set of plates for two reasons. I wanted to adjust my SWAY control while keeping the SB at a level position. You can see by the ARC of holes on the plates that the attaching position will change instead of moving the SB up or down.

Also note on the two top pics that the link is a good 2" away from the SB attaching points. To attach the link in either hole you have to raise the SB so they will align. Using the plates takes care of that problem.

This is just one way of accomplishing the task of increasing and greatly improving your coaches (Ford F-53 chassis only) SWAY control.

TeJay

[WasatchSteve]

TeJay,
Thanks for the response. I have a 2003 Dolphin on a W-22 Chassis. Bought it a couple of years ago, but haven't used it much. We took it out on mountain roads last week here in Utah, and here is what my wife and I observed. On the freeway the steering seems pretty stable, not much fidgeting needed to keep it straight and there doesn't seem to be any free wheeling in the steering wheel. When big trucks pass I don't seem to feel the effect excessively. Certainly not like our old Coachman Class C that had a short wheelbase and a long overhang. What we do feel is side to side rocking with any unevenness in the road, especially at slower speeds on residential roads. It seems to rock a couple of times before settling down. We also seem to feel bouncing in the front over bumps, like the shocks aren't dampening the rebound after the first bounce. It had a four wheel alignment at 54,000 miles. I just loaded it up and weighed it today. The front axle is 6640 (max. 8000) and the rear is 13980 (max. 14500). I weighed each side and the high in the front is 3460 and the high rear is 7180. My chart from Goodyear (I have 255/70R22.5's) indicates I should have about 80 psi in the front, but I'm confused about the rear since at the maximum 120 psi, the chart shows 5070 lbs. Does the weight get divided between the duals? Would I divide the 7180 in half, which would put me at 80 psi for each tire? The rear shocks look to be the original Monroes and the rig has 67000 miles on it. The fronts are Bilsteins, installed about 40,000 miles ago, per the former owner's records. With all this information, I'm thinking, after poring over many threads about track bars, ASBs, steering dampers and shocks, that I need an ASB on the rear and new rear shocks at a minimum, maybe all new shocks. What do you and the other experienced owners suggest as my first approach? Thanks so much for your time and expertise.

[TeJay]

If I'm not mistaken the W-22 is a Workhorse chassis and not a Ford F-53. That said your first step would be to make sure your tires are set at what ever the coach manufacturer suggested. That information should be posted somewhere inside your coach. That is always a good place to start.

They select those pressures based on your coach and the weight of your chassis. They know what it should be within reason. Don't try to second guess their knowledge. Ours were listed at 83 front and rear. For 6 months I was all over the place and finally settled in at 84. Should have started at what they recommended.

As far as the duels are concerned. Usually the tire manufacturer will list the weight to be carried if it is a single tire or as duel set of tires. It is usually lower (each tire) when two tires carry a load. Use that to set your pressures based on your weight.

If it were my coach I'd put all new Bilsteins on it. With 40,000 on the newest set and 67,000 on the oldest set change them all. The shocks will also help with the dampening of the coach body roll. Do those items and drive it and see how you like it.

If the chassis has stabilizer bars which I'm sure it does I'd also install new SB poly bushings. They are 10 times better than the stock ones and will help with the sway control. If those bushings are giving at all the sway control is compromised. The new poly bushings will last at least 10 tears so it's a good investment.

TeJay

[SuperSteer]

WasatchSteve
I saw what you posted for your front and rear axle weights (6640 front and 13980 rear). You might want to get some weight off the rear and get it up front.

In most coaches, you want 50% of your rear axle weight to be on your front. So if the rear weighs 10000 on the rear you want the front to be 5000 UNLESS it’s a W series chassis. They actually get a better performance with a 55% ratio. Right now you are at 48%.

Tire pressure…. The tire pressure that is in your coach on the plate is what the coach builder recommends. This pressure is based on the tires that came on the coach and can be used as a baseline BUT you change to a different brand and more times than not, your recommended pressure will change. Go by what the tire manufacturer says like you are doing based on your weights. Also yes, divide the weight in half on the rear.

Shocks…. There are really only 2 aftermarket shock brands out there that actually do the job for motorhomes (Monroe is not one of them) Bilstein and Koni. The Bilsteins are a pressurized gas that does a good job but can be a little harsh when installed on a leaf spring suspension. Koni’s are a hydraulic shock that (we have found) to be great on knocking out that sharpness you will feel with leaf springs. Basically, both are a good shock and carry a limited lifetime warranty so once you put them on your coach (just as long as you don’t go running the Baja 1000), you are covered as long as you own the coach. Also both are pretty good at knocking out some body roll.

TeJay and WasatchSteve
The W-Series does not have a sway bar like everyone else. What they have is this square tube that goes from one leaf spring to the other. It doesn’t work. Anyways, there are no bushings on there to change out. We’ve taken these bars off before and drove the coach then put them back on and saw no change at all. Pretty worthless really.

There are a lot of aftermarket bars for the W-Series that help a great deal in knocking out body roll.

Hope some of this helps.


__________________________________________________
Dave Stephens
Sales - Tech Support - Media

[WasatchSteve]

Yes, it is a Workhorse chassis. The only rear bar is a solid tubular one from rear spring mount to rear spring mount, with no bushings. No bars of any kind in the front, just the tie rod and the axle. I plan to replace all four shocks. Lots of discussion about Bilsteins vs. Koni, but you think Bilsteins are the way to go? Thanks.

[TeJay]

I have talked with a few who swear by the WH chassis. They won't trade because they like it so much and think it's just great.

[ffpmdefi]

Wow. Good info. I just purchased a FR3 30DS which is on a F53 chassis. Driving it home I lost sleep thinking I made a mistake. A three day trip, Only 20 minutes on I 75 which was all I could take and lost more sleep. Hoping after reading all above it sounds like if I go with all 3. front, rear sway bars and rear track bar it will take care of the awful sway handling. Does everyone agree? I was looking at Blue Ox products.

[Rossi6998]

Originally Posted by ffpmdefi

Wow. Good info. I just purchased a FR3 30DS which is on a F53 chassis. Driving it home I lost sleep thinking I made a mistake. A three day trip, Only 20 minutes on I 75 which was all I could take and lost more sleep. Hoping after reading all above it sounds like if I go with all 3. front, rear sway bars and rear track bar it will take care of the awful sway handling. Does everyone agree? I was looking at Blue Ox products.

As you can tell from above, you are going to get all sorts of opinions and recommendations. Personally, I added a Hellwig rear anti-sway bar, replaced the F53 front anti-sway bar with a Hellwig anti-sway bar, and added an Ultra trac-bar. All seemed to assist in the handling improvement of my Sunstar 26he. I also added airbags to cushion the ride and a Safe-T Plus steering stabilizer to assist with the steering.

Good luck with your decision...

[Hudsoner]

Originally Posted by ffpmdefi

Wow. Good info. I just purchased a FR3 30DS which is on a F53 chassis. Driving it home I lost sleep thinking I made a mistake. A three day trip, Only 20 minutes on I 75 which was all I could take and lost more sleep. Hoping after reading all above it sounds like if I go with all 3. front, rear sway bars and rear track bar it will take care of the awful sway handling. Does everyone agree? I was looking at Blue Ox products.

I did all you want to do (Blue Ox Tiger Track bar). I also did the CHF and added Sumo Maxim springs in the front. I know can only smile when Semis race by me, and most of the time I can keep the rig nicely driving down the road with only one hand at the steering wheel. The white knuckles times are over for me.
The only problem I have left is the harsh knocks when bridge expansion gaps or similar road problems are present. I am working on that and either will weight my front end down (I would have to add steel plates because I cannot move more of my stuff to the front), or will try to find softer springs for the front. Whatever measure is cheaper and more easy to do will be done in one of the upcoming weeks.

[vsheetz]

When I had a f53 chasdis, I did mods one at a time. Each had a incremental improvement. When satisfied with the handling, I stopped spending time and money.

1) ensured tire pressures set by weight, no worn bushings, all else as stock were correct and not damaged.
2) safe steer (more for safety in case if blown tire, but made minor improvement in handling)
3) CHF
4) rear track bar, which was the biggest improvement

[Tricolor]

Originally Posted by Hudsoner

I did all you want to do (Blue Ox Tiger Track bar). The only problem I have left is the harsh knocks when bridge expansion gaps or similar road problems are present. I am working on that and either will weight my front end down (I would have to add steel plates because I cannot move more of my stuff to the front), or will try to find softer springs for the front. Whatever measure is cheaper and more easy to do will be done in one of the upcoming weeks.

I am following the same path. When I have access to my MH next week, I will seriously evaluate the possibility of adding 200-300lbs up front.
In the meantime, if you source a set of softer springs, let us know.

[TeJay]

From what I've learned and from my past experiences they all work together and all contribute in large and small ways to a better ride and handling coach. Those items are and in no special order:

1. Tires with the correct pressures
2. Shock (Maybe some better than stock)
3. Front and rear SWAY bars (stock on the F-53 chassis)
4. Coaches older than 6 years New SB (stabilizer Bar) or SWAY bar poly bushings.
5. Perform the CHF on your stock SWAY bars both front and rear.
6. Front track bar (TB) stock on the F-53 chassis I believe starting in about 2006
7. Rear TB & here's a link to a $50 DIY TB
8. Change your F & R SB for thicker ones. That comes at a steep price ($1,500).
Just not in my budget but the CHF was.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f23/track...is-298428.html

9. Steering shock stabilizer That was also a DIY project for me.
10. Centrimatic wheel balancer's. For $400 both front and rear & never worry again.

11. 5-Star TUNE Not a ride and handling item but a great MOD.

I've added front Sumo solo's but as far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on their effectiveness. Maybe they do add something but I couldn't tell. Supposedly the Sumo Maxis are better but the price is a lot higher and not everybody reported good success either.

I've read several reports on Firestone air bags as one that does soften the harsh ride. Again that is still not a definitive assessment either. Some report that they can't help because we still have the stiff leaf spring. A few others report that they did help.

Currently I'm OK with our RV's ride and handling. The handling is absolutely great and I'd give it a 100% rating. The ride no so much. Maybe a 90% with the other 10% a toss up between kind of OK and just awful. There are roads in this country that I don't think even an air ride would help but in our travels those are probably only in the 5% of where we travel.

Final assessment is simply this. The F-53 chassis will never be a DP air ride system. It has inherent issues. The straight front axle with leaf springs front and rear are harsh. If you have 22.5" tires you are better off than those of us with the 19.5" tires. We (I) however can change and rotate my tires and 99% of owners with the 22.5" tires can't. I consider that a plus. In the two years we've owned this coach I've had all 6 tires off 8-10 times for various reasons.

In the future when I need to service our RV I can DIY everything. For some of you that is not an issue either because you can't or you prefer to pay somebody else to do it. I don't trust most other technicians but then so far I can still do most all of this stuff that I may have to do. Yes I realize that may/will change as the years pile on.

We've spent about $2,500 on all the above MODS and that includes the 5 Star TUNE and the Centramatic Balancers ($800). The balancers can move from coach to coach and will last for a very long time.

The $1,700 was not a bad added investment for the improvement in the ride and handling. It's still way, way below the investment in a DP.

[Tricolor]

Thanks TeJay. It's nice to have someone summarising things up once in a while.