Community Forums

rayza · 07-31-2019, 10:24 AM

TL;DR - Worth it over 5 Star, worth it for a small upgrade fee.

Disclaimer: Brazels has offered me the tune file as part of their V10 5 Star Owners challenge. Having previously owned and installed the 5 star tuning, they are offering the tune to me for $50 which is discounted when writing a review. They made it clear that the review should be un-biased and honest.

My setup: I own a 2018 Newmar Bay Star on a 24K Chassis. I operate just under GVWR at ~23K and I tow a 4300 Jeep behind me. I have not made any modifications to the engine, air or exhaust. The only modifications to the vehicle are suspension and the tune itself. I have had the 5 star tune installed for a little over a year and am very familiar with it.

My test: My thoughts are mostly subjective, I do not have any data to back up any findings, but I am very familiar with how my coach drives. I am definitely someone who pushes my coach and tries to optimize fuel mileage with performance. I think I average about 62MPH on freeway driving. For the purpose of testing the Brazel's Tune I started my trip keeping the 5 star tune installed. I drove I5 from Southern California to approximately Sacramento. This included the Tejon/Tehachapi/Grapevine mountain pass. I really paid attention to how the coach handled, how it kept the speed up hills of different grades, even on flat surfaces. I drove without cruise control 90% of the time. I then installed the Brazel's tune at a rest area and observed the same thing. I drove through Northern California which included the Siskiyou pass. I have had Brazel's installed for 4 days now which includes 3 days of driving.

My findings: I definitely feel that the Brazel's tune has given the coach more horsepower/torque/whatever you want to call it. My first observation was that it was easier to keep my speed constant. With the 5 star tune trying to hold 67MPH with very slight hills, and sometimes even flat surfaces I noticed that the speed would drift down a little, and i'd have to press the pedal down slightly to bring it back up. I would get in this pattern of 'press, let up, press, let up'. With the Brazel's it seemed easier to hold 67MPH. I didn't feel like I had to keep giving it a little more gas just to keep it up to speed. The next thing that I noticed is that passing was easier. When passing I get into the left lane, give it a little more gas to get by, and then merge back into the right lane. I noticed with the Brazel's that it didn't seem to 'lag' when doing this like I was used to. It was just a clean smooth acceleration and passing. The best way to explain this and why I feel like Brazel's does give an increase is that everything just seemed like it took less effort. Accelerating, passing, going up hills, just driving in general. The stock and 5 star tune always felt like it would lag or peter out when doing some 'manuevers'.

Gas mileage - this is a touchy subject for sure and I very much know that you can't just take 1 or 2 measurements. So many variables (wind, road, pressure, how you are driving) can affect it. I just wanted to do a simple test. I have a Bluetooth OBD2 and I tracked my gas mileage for the first day using 5 star. It came in at 6.17 MPG which is exactly where I have always had it when testing over longer ranges with mostly highway driving. I did the same test with Brazels and came in at 6.43. I have since reset it and tested it a few times and always come in around the 6.4-6.45 range. I am going to continue to monitor it, but it SEEMS like I am getting a .26 MPG increase. If that holds, it will save me about $10 a day of driving 500 miles which is a typical tank of gas.

My recommendation: If I were in the market right now for either, I would purchase the Brazel over the 5 Star. If Brazel was offering the upgrade price of $50 if you already own the device, I would definitely do it. If I already had 5 Star and had to re-purchase the device and tune for any reason at full retail (I assume $450) I would say if you are happy with what you have and can't afford it, I wouldn't skip feeding your children to get it. Personally I have enough disposable income and am always looking to make the ride just a little bit better that I would do it, but I drove 40K miles in the RV last year.

If anybody has any feedback or specific tests/observations they would like me to make, let me know. I do have the OBD scanner and can monitor any of the sensors that Ford exposes.

RVPioneer · 07-31-2019, 10:51 AM

Do you think Brazel’s would pony up to provide rear wheel hp and torque figures/charts for stock, 5-start and their UP tunes?

rayza · 07-31-2019, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVPioneer

Do you think Brazel’s would pony up to provide rear wheel hp and torque figures/charts for stock, 5-start and their UP tunes?

I would recommend reaching out to Jon help@urvp.com and ask that question. Would be interesting. I know I feel like it has more torque, but that is only subjective.

Isaac-1 · 07-31-2019, 03:59 PM

Rear wheel HP and torque figures from a chassis dyno is an almost useless measurement except for when comparing before and after figures during a tuning run on a specific coach. There are just too many other factors that effect the numbers, how hot was the engine, what was the condition of the oil, how tight were the tie down straps, ....

wildmanbaker · 07-31-2019, 04:31 PM

Rayza, thanks for the well written report. It should be of interest to others here also.

RVPioneer · 07-31-2019, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isaac-1

Rear wheel HP and torque figures from a chassis dyno is an almost useless measurement except for when comparing before and after figures during a tuning run on a specific coach. There are just too many other factors that effect the numbers, how hot was the engine, what was the condition of the oil, how tight were the tie down straps, ....

I like numbers.

Pirate · 07-31-2019, 04:54 PM

I wonder just how "custom" these tunes are. I had 5star installed but wanted to see pending codes. Had a lot of issues but basically found that I could not use a code reader unless I went back to stock. When I had 5star installed it showed up as an 8 cylinder engine, wrong set up for o2 sensors, and who knows what else. Made me wonder if I would display proper fault codes, etc. Currently running stock and happy with it.

JpalmerCass · 07-31-2019, 07:18 PM

Who pops for drive train repairs if Ford won't honor the warranty? Do these Brazel guys protect you?

CJ7365 · 07-31-2019, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JpalmerCass

Who pops for drive train repairs if Ford won't honor the warranty? Do these Brazel guys protect you?

twinboat · 07-31-2019, 07:45 PM

Both tunes reprogram the throttle response. They shorten the distance you push the pedal to open the throttle plates. Thats why they feel more responsive.

As far as more power and or torque, that can only happen with the throttle wide open.
If you had 245HP, it was measured at full throttle, so any increase will also be at full throttle. If your foot isn't to the floor, your not making extra power.

Dyno measurements are all recorded under heavy load at wide open throttle.

There is a running post by a programer explaining it.
https://www.irv2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451629

Ultra RV Products · 07-31-2019, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVPioneer

Do you think Brazel’s would pony up to provide rear wheel hp and torque figures/charts for stock, 5-start and their UP tunes?

We can and will do that, anyone want to visit our shop so they can see first hand?

Ultra RV Products · 07-31-2019, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat

Both tunes reprogram the throttle response. They shorten the distance you push the pedal to open the throttle plates. Thats why they feel more responsive.

Throttle response is improved with our custom tuning without commanding WOT at low pedal position. If you read the other thread you will find that all data collected and presented in the other posting was of a 5 Star tune, not ours.

Waiter21 · 08-01-2019, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Both tunes reprogram the throttle response. They shorten the distance you push the pedal to open the throttle plates. Thats why they feel more responsive.

Interesting - I wonder if this is what people are experiencing when they say "WOW- I now have more power". In reality they don't, but it fells that way when pressing the gas pedal..

Cruise Control. This could have a positive impact on CC. Its my observation that the CC would be more responsive if it could provide more power )throttle) early in the demand for more throttle, maybe a little more "P" in the PID control loop (P is proportion)

Nickd · 08-05-2019, 04:18 PM

Thanks for the write up Reyza.
Also Thanks Jon for chiming in and letting us know Dyno testing is coming.

I think we all know that there is more power available from the modern 3 valve V10.

I won't upload a tune without seeing a Torque curve first. I need to see twist numbers at the RPM's I like to run before I open my wallet. I don't really care what it does at 4500 RPM. Its the 2200-3400 RPM zone where we live that matters. 550-Ft lbs should be possible without too much heat or pre-detonation on the V10.

Eventually, someone will get it dialed in.