Should I just get the Five star tune and get it over with!

[Lawdawg]

Originally Posted by clyon51

This has been mentioned many times for GM vehicles, never mentioned or verified for Ford.

I am not going to flame you but that's a ridiculous statement. THIS WILL BE NEW FEDERAL LAW! Does our federal government pass laws that only affect one brand.....RARELY and if so only because that brand has an individual issue.

YES, ECU's can be detected NOW as being reflashed BUT that's not what I am talking about. THE FUTURE ECU ON EVERY VEHICLE IN THE USA will have a separate flag on whether it has been flashed or not EVEN if it has been returned to stock state.

The reason I pursued this topic in the first place was because I was concerned about doing this and called my brother to get his opinion and expertise.

The new ECU guidelines go into effect starting with the 2014 models of EVERY VEHICLE OF EVERY BRAND!

P.S. Why would anyone think this guideline would be brand specific per the government?

[garykk]

Originally Posted by Lawdawg

I am not going to flame you but that's a ridiculous statement. THIS WILL BE NEW FEDERAL LAW! Does our federal government pass laws that only affect one brand.....RARELY and if so only because that brand has an individual issue.

YES, ECU's can be detected NOW as being reflashed BUT that's not what I am talking about. THE FUTURE ECU ON EVERY VEHICLE IN THE USA will have a separate flag on whether it has been flashed or not EVEN if it has been returned to stock state.

The reason I pursued this topic in the first place was because I was concerned about doing this and called my brother to get his opinion and expertise.

The new ECU guidelines go into effect starting with the 2014 models of EVERY VEHICLE OF EVERY BRAND!

P.S. Why would anyone think this guideline would be brand specific per the government?

I think the OP was speaking of previous years concerning GM... Not what you were talking about..and GM did and does have a way to detect changes to the ECM..

[sswilson]

Originally Posted by Lawdawg

I am not going to flame you but that's a ridiculous statement. THIS WILL BE NEW FEDERAL LAW! Does our federal government pass laws that only affect one brand.....RARELY and if so only because that brand has an individual issue.

YES, ECU's can be detected NOW as being reflashed BUT that's not what I am talking about. THE FUTURE ECU ON EVERY VEHICLE IN THE USA will have a separate flag on whether it has been flashed or not EVEN if it has been returned to stock state.

The reason I pursued this topic in the first place was because I was concerned about doing this and called my brother to get his opinion and expertise.

The new ECU guidelines go into effect starting with the 2014 models of EVERY VEHICLE OF EVERY BRAND!

P.S. Why would anyone think this guideline would be brand specific per the government?

What would have said differently if you wanted to flame him?

[bdickson]

Let's keep it civil, folks.

[jamesrxx951]

Originally Posted by Dunner

Does it still show a change in programming if the stock program is reinstalled?

It is hard to answer that. I believe it will determine how the programmer starts there base program. Some of these programmers use only one type of calibration and modify it from there. In the cases of the 6.7L diesel, 3.5L Ecoboost F150, 5.0L F150, 5.0L Mustang (only ones I was involved with) we were able to tell there was a programmer even though it was " returned to stock". Seems like the core programming that has the VIN info can be permanently programmed and not returned to the original calibration. To be honest with a motorhome I really don't think Ford or a dealer would care if there is a programmer in there or even check. However unless there is a needed calibration update from a dealer I would not have a PCM programmed at a dealer at all. Just to be safe. Could open a can of worms if an issue arises.

[cucamelsmd15]

Originally Posted by Lawdawg

My brother is a 30 year ASE certified GM mechanic and is currently the service manager at a dealership. He told me today that the ECU's in ALL VEHICLES in the USA will start reporting if they were flashed or reflashed even once and that the dealer will notate this when detected and will silently void your powertrain warranty. This is happening based on new legislation that goes into place governing ALL motor vehicles produced for the USA starting in 2014 and moving forward. It will not be a matter of detecting changes in the ECU but instead that the ECU will store the fact that it was changed separately from the tune itself. Just a heads up and this only affects 2014+ models.

This again?

Hint: Magnuson-Moss Act.

This is an old wives tale to start with, and theres no magic switch in 2014 that will change. The dealer has always been able to tell a reflashed computer, how many times its been flashed, whats been changed, and what manner it was changed in. This since, oh, about 1994 or so. So, Id say your about 20 years late to the party pal, but I digress...

There are ways that flashes can be undone and never detected. And no, youre not going to accomplish this by going back to "stock" with your handheld flash tool, its more involved than that.

[Lawdawg]

Three things I know: 1. Not many 30 year plus dealership ASE mechanics on here, my family does not (moderator edit) like some one here, and unless you are an ECM programmer with YEARS of experience, you probably know less than me about ECM programming. Why you might ask?

In 2009 in purchased a new 370z sports car. I was coming out of a 2007 Z51 corvette and I liked the Z but wanted more power. I decided to add a GTM stage 2 twin turbo kit. It would be THE FIRST installed on THE NEW 370z in the USA (according to GTM). The install was done by Z1 motorsports in Georgia.

Because my car had the 7 speed automatic (don't ask, thought I was tired of shifting gears at purchase) it took nearly 3 months of ECU tuning to get the turbo's dialed in and get the line pressures on the tranny high enough so that I would not trash the tranny at higher boost levels. And yes autos have clutches between every gear and the higher gears were deemed weak in the 370z. While I was there, Z1 did all the tuning and my tune was used as the map for other AUTO 370z's that went twin turbo.

Would I do all that again....probably not. End result: about 5 months in the shop but with 650 rwhp and 470 tq.......faster than my L3 corvette.

And to those who said ECU/M changes can be detected now, yes that's true and I already knew that. BUT according to my brother 2014+ plus models will have an ADDED FLAG that previous ECU's don't.

I am done with this discussion and will let time prove my point. You can still tune but it might void your power train warranty in the future and while I have been foolish with money in the past I don't intend to be now or in the future.

[cucamelsmd15]

Originally Posted by Lawdawg

Three things I know: 1. Not many 30 year plus dealership ASE mechanics on here, my family does not bullshit like some one here, and unless you are an ECM programmer with YEARS of experience, you probably know less than me about ECM programming. Why you might ask?

Youre in luck then. Ive done integrated control systems and embedded programming for a number of years for a variety of controlled systems that are FAR more complex than a car ECU.

Heres some things I know, that arent opinions like yours:
1. All the talk about ECU flags this, ECU changes that means nothing. Why? Because that ECU, like every other ECU before it is nothing more than transistors, EEPROMs, and some software to make it tick. The ECU design has been fundamentally the same since fuel injection was invented. It hasnt changed in 20+ years, and its not changing this year, and its not changing anytime soon. Why? Because at the most basic fundamental engineering level, the ECU in its current iteration works, works well, and requires little to nothing as far as extended costs to maintain. All you have to do is throw a few tables, some PID loops and some modifiers into it, and it works.

2. ECU programming, despite the snake oil that many sell about dealerships knowing or not knowing if its been flashed, flashed counters, warranties etc can be undone. There is no magic bullet. There is no "special flag". There is no "black box". There is, however, a flash counting parameter, and it does count how many times the ECU is flashed. It will capture you flashing it with your handheld tuner, no doubt. And going back to stock will return the programming to stock, but will not reset the counters. There is also another parameter which has to be reset, which I am intentionally leaving out for various reasons. But the bottom line is, it CAN be done. It WILL NOT be done with your handheld programmer.

[jamesrxx951]

Originally Posted by Lawdawg

Three things I know: 1. Not many 30 year plus dealership ASE mechanics on here, my family does not (moderator edit) like some one here,.

ASE certs are pretty meaningless. I had my masters before I finished college and L1 shortly after. In fact Ford did away with that requirement a long time ago because ASE testing is very basic. Where ASE has less than 50 test that range all over the board, Ford has 5X's that or more. Im sure GM also a similar testing schedule.

[mike garry]

did the tune and made it to some hills. easier shifting and not as much downshifting, gas mileage barely improved. he tune was/is worth it to me.

[outnumbered]

I am ready to buy a tuner, does 5 star have a sale or coupon. Time to make the Ford V10 shift correctly

[cmalberto]

Originally Posted by outnumbered

I am ready to buy a tuner, does 5 star have a sale or coupon. Time to make the Ford V10 shift correctly

No doubt the 5-Star does exactly that...it shifts effortlessly.

[ledoylefcco]

I purchased the 5 Star tuner last year just before taking a 5600 mile road trip. It fixed the major complaints I had about the Ford V10 driveability. Not only did it shift better but there was a considerable reduction in head coming into the cab, especially on the passenger side.

[K3wtf]

We stopped by 5 star on way to fla. Great bunch of people and did my tune on ft 328 2014 model. Shifts so much better.