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Old 06-23-2015, 03:16 AM   #1
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Triton V10 injectors not firing

Hi all,

I have a 2005 Coachmen Mirada on a Ford chassis. It will not start, my mechanic tells me we have 43 psi at the rail for fuel and all plugs are sparking. He says on testing the injectors are not firing. We are in the United kingdom so not to many experts on these engines here. He has asked me to ask, if anyone has a wiring diagram and does the crankshaft sensor control the injectors
any help gratefully received
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Old 06-23-2015, 03:19 AM   #2
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Triton V10 injectors not firing

Welcome to irv2. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to assist.
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Old 06-23-2015, 05:35 AM   #3
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I am not the expert. But I do have diagrams for the 2001 Coachman Mirada (2001 F53)

Fuel pressure at the rail says a lot of stuff is OK.

Looking through the diagrams, the fuel injectors and spark plug coils are controlled directly from the PCM (Powertrain Control Module)

The Camshaft sensor feeds the PCM and I see a note that it is used to fire the FI during start. (see below)

This also has a crank sensor, but apparently doesn't get involved with FI firing

See attached.

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Old 06-23-2015, 06:15 AM   #4
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What have you done to assure that the injectors ARE NOT OPENING TO ALLOW FUEL INTO THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER? I'm guessing that your tech knows what he's doing but I've been caught before making assumptions so that's why I'm asking that question. Verify that no fuel is getting into any of the chambers and explain how that was determined. This I will also agree to. One can assume if you are getting spark and compression it should fire unless no fuel is present. It's still best to not make assumptions.

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Old 06-23-2015, 08:09 AM   #5
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TeJay,

Sounds like the tech is moving in the right direction, but like you say, if the tech isn't familiar, he could overlook stuff.


I would get a can of starting fluid or carb cleaner and spray it in the intake as I crank. If it tries to fire and run, That pretty much says fuel problem.

If he has 45 psi at the rail, that says the pump is OK, Other than wierd problem, i.e. water in fuel, If it doesn't start, the FIs would be the next suspect.

He could take a sample of fuel from the rail and make sure its not water.

I have a set of NOID test lights that I used once. These will tell you if the injectors are firing. it won't tell you if they are firing correctly.

Fuel Injection Test Injector Tester Noid Light Tool Set | eBay
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Old 06-23-2015, 08:54 AM   #6
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TeJay,

Sounds like the tech is moving in the right direction, but like you say, if the tech isn't familiar, he could overlook stuff.


I would get a can of starting fluid or carb cleaner and spray it in the intake as I crank. If it tries to fire and run, That pretty much says fuel problem.

If he has 45 psi at the rail, that says the pump is OK, Other than wierd problem, i.e. water in fuel, If it doesn't start, the FIs would be the next suspect.

He could take a sample of fuel from the rail and make sure its not water.

I have a set of NOID test lights that I used once. These will tell you if the injectors are firing. it won't tell you if they are firing correctly.

Fuel Injection Test Injector Tester Noid Light Tool Set | eBay
My tech has used lights to see that the injectors are not operating. So he now suspects ECU or crankshaft sensor, but was not sure if the sensor did operate the injectors.
Thank you all for your input.
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Old 06-23-2015, 09:05 AM   #7
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Did he pull the codes? That tells you more than anything else. Post the codes so we can see whats going on.
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Old 06-23-2015, 09:47 AM   #8
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If it has spark, it's not the crank sensor, and the ECU is online and at least partially functioning. It'll start without the cam sensor, fuel may be mistimed, but it will run.

Injectors have power? There should be 12 volts on one wire. The ECU grounds the other to make it fire.

Try this link for injector wiring diagram

And this one for where the power gets to the injectors
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Old 06-23-2015, 09:20 PM   #9
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If you have no strobe at the injectors make sure the ecu is getting the signal from the cam sensor. If so then the ecu will most likely be your problem. The ecu uses the signal from the cam sensor to pulse the ground to the injectors. It can always be faulty wiring in between but a simple continuity test can eliminate that part.
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Old 06-23-2015, 09:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tderonne View Post

Injectors have power? There should be 12 volts on one wire. The ECU grounds the other to make it fire.
That'll measure 12v on either wire, as not running it's an open circuit and the only difference on which wire is the resistance of the injector.

That is, check for 12v at the injector with the other probe grounded..

As mentioned above, it's the ECU's job to "pulse" the injector to ground.
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Old 06-24-2015, 04:00 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by tderonne View Post
If it has spark, it's not the crank sensor, and the ECU is online and at least partially functioning. It'll start without the cam sensor, fuel may be mistimed, but it will run.

Injectors have power? There should be 12 volts on one wire. The ECU grounds the other to make it fire.

Try this link for injector wiring diagram

And this one for where the power gets to the injectors
Thanks for trying, but the links will not work.
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Old 06-24-2015, 08:44 AM   #12
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Check it with a scan tool. Let us know the codes. Does it have PATS? If you would like to PM me the VIN I can check for VIN specific issues.
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Old 06-26-2015, 11:43 AM   #13
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Did he pull the codes? That tells you more than anything else. Post the codes so we can see whats going on.
Code was PO316 (26,10,3,16)
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Old 06-26-2015, 11:44 AM   #14
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That'll measure 12v on either wire, as not running it's an open circuit and the only difference on which wire is the resistance of the injector.

That is, check for 12v at the injector with the other probe grounded..

As mentioned above, it's the ECU's job to "pulse" the injector to ground.
12 volts at the injectors.
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