|
|
07-12-2021, 07:39 PM
|
#57
|
Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Meshoppen, PA
Posts: 1,997
|
This thread is all over the place.. wow..
long read but my passion gets charged up over these threads and oil ones and others LOL
Being a motor nut, engine guy all my life.. from 1976 til around 2000ish I was of the ole school, buildem, breakem, tunem..tweekem.. take notes, pay attention makem last and go fast..
Then I got hooked up with a 7 doctrine MIT research petrochemist.. and another MIT guru who was a motor nut.. WOW there is really math to all this stuff we blow up at the track... LOL
Fast Forward to my son who did 6 years in motorsports tech and advanced auto tech.. I got a chance to shadow some classes and his Ford tech instructor had is hands in the ford modular design and the V6 development, now retired and still prototypes/flows ford race heads for to teams at 40-60K a pop...
Back UP in 1980ish I did a 406 tripower ford with 427 heads , my mentor at that time send the heads off for valve work.. motor was dynoed by me and but in a build.. well career,business, wife and son.. stopped the hobbie.. My son needed a school project..I sad go up poppys garage, my dads.. pull the 406 and take it, update it, see what they think now days..
Well that next night after we dropped it at school.. It was almost 1am and Junior aint home.. I text him.. "I am at school" I say doing what.. "the motor ".. phones rings Junior .. bob wants to talk to you.. Hey this is an oldie.. nice.. I have not seen those titanium oem ford retainers since the late 70's or so. I did one way back for a machinist I knew.. I said those were done for my at Sal's. I helped him at nites.. I think I have the bill some where.
YEP I was the guy, he was the guy I never met but heard about..
Sad part is that motor is still on a stand in my garage.. all done..
OK V10 for like its older kin the 460.. work horses.. they are tried and proven in hot shot box vans to RV;s
Have they had odd failures yep.. main oil related from pump fails that casued spun bearings etc.. or that Friday assembly or monday morning oh my build..
I had one 460 that tossed a rod, snapped it right off, thing made it 23 mikes back , loaded.. shaking , not a drop of oil spilled.. coolant spit out, she was hot..
Motor had 3 #5 rods, normally they are numbered 1 thru 8 there was 3. 5s.. one broke.. it was 12345655 cyl 7 rod broke,,
It had 117K on it but,,,,
In my tow trucks of the day and my rvs when loaded to make,, I have made trips that it was mashed to floor 60-70% of the time...for hours, stop for fuel and mash. PA Virgina mountains.. out west a couple times..
Only had 2 V10, earlier model felt a bit under powered, the 2014 ran good,, exhaust manifolds twice,, we were use to the 460 LOL...
used Amsoil forever 15w40 full syn.. even in the v10.. yeah a no no.. the 2014 had 237K when I sold it..
as far as RPM.. the V10 was happy over 4200 on climbs. would hold and sing..
. the 460 was almost topped out and 3600-3800 and held it well..
as in my service tow trucks etc.. The F350 and F750 with same motor had different styles of climbing and doing hills etc..
RV are the same
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
07-12-2021, 08:47 PM
|
#58
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 7
|
What twin boat said!
|
|
|
07-12-2021, 09:30 PM
|
#59
|
Registered User
Newmar Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner Freightliner Owners Club Retired Fire Service RVer's
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Rosemary Farm, Northern Ca
Posts: 5,444
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marteen
I use Castrol edge and napa gold filters.
I change oil and filter at approx 3000 when in hilly areas. If just running 1-5 N-S I will go 4000 mi. I am not sure of the name of the service contract company. It was what was offered when we bought the coach from Guaranty RV in Colton CA. The mechanic in Palm Desert said that he has seen this failure on older V-10's before. I very seldom run the engine over 4000 rpm. The engine only had 17000 miles on it when it failed.
|
Id say you were doing everything right so it must have been some kind of defect. Not much else you could have done to prevent that.
|
|
|
07-12-2021, 09:55 PM
|
#60
|
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 107
|
That was a great read Sibe!
In answer to wrsleeth, I had a 5 Star tuner in a Mirada and the full Banks kit, both go hand in hand. Big difference in how it runs. Not so happy to downshift at every little ant hill…
I let the RPM’s get higher going downhill in Tow/Haul than I would going uphill.
The thing about the V10’s is that they just sound like the are revving higher than what we all are used to with the V8’s.
I learned how to work on engines with a 1-cylinder. It was called a Briggs & Stratton. 1960’s…
|
|
|
07-13-2021, 07:39 AM
|
#61
|
Member
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 76
|
Whenever I think about the split pin crankshaft in these Ford V10s, I'm surprised that we can get around the block without breaking it. (Pic borrowed from ebay) I keep fresh synthetic oil in mine, and avoid high engine speeds as much as I can. But sometimes you have to put you foot on the floor to merge or climb a hill, and just hope for the best.
|
|
|
07-13-2021, 07:41 AM
|
#62
|
Registered User
Newmar Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner Freightliner Owners Club Retired Fire Service RVer's
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Rosemary Farm, Northern Ca
Posts: 5,444
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaC
Whenever I think about the split pin crankshaft in these Ford V10s, I'm surprised that we can get around the block without breaking it. (Pic borrowed from ebay) I keep fresh synthetic oil in mine, and avoid high engine speeds as much as I can. But sometimes you have to put you foot on the floor to merge or climb a hill, and just hope for the best.
|
Didn’t they have crankshaft issues for the first year or two of the V10?
|
|
|
07-13-2021, 08:53 AM
|
#63
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Grapevine, Tx
Posts: 5,625
|
__________________
2004 Fleetwood Southwind 32VS W20 - SOLD!
ReadyBrute Elite towing a 2017 Ford Edge Sport
|
|
|
07-13-2021, 11:02 AM
|
#64
|
Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Ogdensburg, NY
Posts: 323
|
Great info on the V-10.
__________________
2010 WBGO Vista 32k - sold/traded
2014 Tiffin Allegro 36LA
|
|
|
07-13-2021, 11:22 AM
|
#65
|
Registered User
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,493
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat
Maybe back in your fathers day, but not nowdays.
Marine, gas engines are nothing more then marinized car and light truck engines.
Small RV generators run at more then 50% of max RPMs all day, @3600 RPMs. Do you think a generator engine is rated for 7,200 max RPMs ?
I spent many years working on industrial engines, gas and diesel. None of them ran at 50% RPMs while working.
|
We just got a NOS 2020 Coachmen with the V10. Coming back from the dealer we went through a lot of mountain passes etc. It automagically dropped gears as we went down hills when it saw we were hitting the brakes with no throttle input. This means the ECU was controlling the engine RPM and trans gear.
I watched as the tach climbed to 5,000 RPM on steep downgrades. My dad looked at me and told me to stop beating on the engine!! (He's 87). I told him that it was FORD that was doing it.
I used the brakes to keep it under 5,000 RPM lest it drop another gear and rev even higher. Don't know if Dad could take that but pretty sure I'd get an earful with him telling me to pull over and he'd drive....
Later on we looked at the tach and it goes to 6,000 RPM.... and has no redline or orange line. Point being, in any modern engine it's the ECU, and, as such, the engineers, that limit what the engine is allowed to do. So, clearly, Ford DESIGNED it to drop a gear and hit 5,000 RPM. Literally, BY DESIGN. It's loud, it's scary (the first time) but it's BY DESIGN.
|
|
|
07-13-2021, 02:24 PM
|
#66
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 35,349
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobJones
We just got a NOS 2020 Coachmen with the V10. Coming back from the dealer we went through a lot of mountain passes etc. It automagically dropped gears as we went down hills when it saw we were hitting the brakes with no throttle input. This means the ECU was controlling the engine RPM and trans gear.
I watched as the tach climbed to 5,000 RPM on steep downgrades. My dad looked at me and told me to stop beating on the engine!! (He's 87). I told him that it was FORD that was doing it.
I used the brakes to keep it under 5,000 RPM lest it drop another gear and rev even higher. Don't know if Dad could take that but pretty sure I'd get an earful with him telling me to pull over and he'd drive....
Later on we looked at the tach and it goes to 6,000 RPM....and has no redline or orange line. Point being, in any modern engine it's the ECU, and, as such, the engineers, that limit what the engine is allowed to do. So, clearly, Ford DESIGNED it to drop a gear and hit 5,000 RPM. Literally, BY DESIGN. It's loud, it's scary (the first time) but it's BY DESIGN.
|
If the RPMs got to high, it would have upshifted to save the engine.
Then you better be on the brakes.
|
|
|
07-13-2021, 02:26 PM
|
#67
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Safety Harbor, FL
Posts: 2,501
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobJones
Later on we looked at the tach and it goes to 6,000 RPM....and has no redline or orange line. Point being, in any modern engine it's the ECU, and, as such, the engineers, that limit what the engine is allowed to do. So, clearly, Ford DESIGNED it to drop a gear and hit 5,000 RPM. Literally, BY DESIGN. It's loud, it's scary (the first time) but it's BY DESIGN.
|
I believe the redline on the V10 is 6000 rpm, but as you said the ECU will not allow it to ever be hit. The ECU on my 2016 320hp V10 is limited to 4200 rpm for power but will exceed that on a downhill with engine braking, I have never been able to get it above 5300 rpm. I believe the older 362hp tune revs to 5500 rpm to achieve the extra power.
Mark K the retired Ford transmission engineer around here who worked on the 5 speed I believe said it will up shift to protect the engine during engine braking downhill somewhere before 6000 rpm.
__________________
2022 Thor Palazzo 33.5
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Toad - Readybrute Elite Towbar
|
|
|
07-13-2021, 08:42 PM
|
#68
|
Registered User
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,493
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat
If the RPMs got to high, it would have upshifted to save the engine.
Then you better be on the brakes.
|
I used the brakes to keep it under 5,000 RPM. One I understood what was going on, along with the noise, I figured that was the smart move
Quote:
Originally Posted by jharrell
I believe the redline on the V10 is 6000 rpm, but as you said the ECU will not allow it to ever be hit. The ECU on my 2016 320hp V10 is limited to 4200 rpm for power but will exceed that on a downhill with engine braking, I have never been able to get it above 5300 rpm. I believe the older 362hp tune revs to 5500 rpm to achieve the extra power.
Mark K the retired Ford transmission engineer around here who worked on the 5 speed I believe said it will up shift to protect the engine during engine braking downhill somewhere before 6000 rpm.
|
Interesting. I was quite surprised that the ECU extrapolated from the lack of throttle input and regular use of brakes that I was going downhill and that it should assist with engine braking. Pleasantly surprised. But when I saw the RPM it took me a few moments to understand that they felt that RPM was safe etc. It was very noisy.
|
|
|
07-13-2021, 10:55 PM
|
#69
|
Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 99
|
downshifting
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobJones
I used the brakes to keep it under 5,000 RPM. One I understood what was going on, along with the noise, I figured that was the smart move
Interesting. I was quite surprised that the ECU extrapolated from the lack of throttle input and regular use of brakes that I was going downhill and that it should assist with engine braking. Pleasantly surprised. But when I saw the RPM it took me a few moments to understand that they felt that RPM was safe etc. It was very noisy.
|
My 2017 Newmar will downshift without touching the brakes downhill.
It is scary the first time you hear this thing screaming, after that it is just painful to listen to.
|
|
|
07-14-2021, 08:05 AM
|
#70
|
Member
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 76
|
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|