Wheel Centering

[Waiter21]

'''you stated your sleeves were .560 ID to fit over the stud, where could I find a drill bit or milling tool to bore the inside with.

I have no idea. The sleeves are used on the front and rear. The sleeves are a very hard material. The ones I got cost $43. I leave them in the tool kit that stays with the MH.

[marjoa]

This may or may not be helpful to your situation...
When I had our new rear toyo tires mounted a few months ago, I also bought a total of 12 (3 for each wheel) tapered self-centering lug nuts. This insured that the wheels were centered on the hub.

Here's the entire post:
I just bought and had installed here locally in Texas about 60 miles away from Houston, 4 new tires on my rear dually's, 4 - Toyo M122's, 255/70R 22.5 (H rated tires), new s/s solid extended valve stems for my TPMS, road force balanced, 2 Centramatic Balancing Rings and also had front tires/rims dismounted, road force balanced, 2 Centramatic balancing rings installed there too along with new gaskets/"O" rings on those s/s valve stems and lastly bought a total of 12 (3 for each rim) tapered self-centering lug nuts and all 4 tires had the same DOT date that were 12 weeks old. Went for a 40 mile drive (one way) had the coach weighed, came back and —by hand they re-torqued—to 450ft.lbs. all the lug nuts.
For a total of $1,850.00.

Took a while to find a shop that would do the road force balance and all the other stuff I wanted and get the pricing I did, but finally did. Get er done!

The folks @ Centramatics recommended this tire shop in Willis, TX to me.
Southern Tire Mart | Tires, Truck Repair, Wheels | Over 70 Locations
Speak with John Malroy @ the tire shop - I believe he is the manager and very knowledgeable & helpful.

For me (IMHO) it's not just a matter of "riding smoother" or "feeling better" it's a matter of keeping the rig as healthy as possible. With this much weight, if you have tires and wheels that are not match balanced, not balanced or improperly balanced, followed up with not centering correctly when mounting to the hubs and lugs are installed, it can create vibration (whether you feel it or not) that translates throughout the entire suspension system which can wear other parts prematurely.

Since everything is "riding on my tires", and I'm going to spend a couple of grand for tires, why wouldn't I take the other necessary steps to insure, good tire wear and minimize other possible suspension issues by spending a few more bucks?

But then again I've never been accused of taking the cheap route on anything I've ever done.

I'm not a fan of beads or powders. My 2 cents.

[House Husband]

Ford wheel bearing adjustment.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8l65kq0bg5...rings.pdf?dl=0

Richard

[TeJay]

Richard,

Sorry but steps 5 thru 10 on pages 3 & 4 (I'm guessing it's the adjustment process) leaves a lot to be desired as far as clarity and the exact meaning. Loosening and tightening of the spindle nut does not follow the arrows as shown.

Following directions was never one of my strong suits I guess.

[C-Leigh Racing]

Looking at those instructions, I guess while rotating the hub you tighten the nut until you fell some slight drag in hub rotation to be sure the bearings are fully seated & then back the nut of just till the nut feels free, then hand tight & cotter pin the nut. Thats normally how I do any hub bearing, cause you have to allow for heat expand of everything so I hand tight them. Now a hub on a 9" floater Ford rear end, you got to torque them babys to spec.
Neil

[TeJay]

Neil,

I'm with you on the adjustment procedure. I also believe that's what they were trying to explain to us but as a teacher I know my students would never have arrived at anything close to it. We both did it just about the same way and I'm sure you were as successful as I was over all the years. Leave a little clearance (.001 to .003) for heat expansion.

[NeilV]

On the question of why Ford doesn't just correct these issues... Well over the past 50 years that I can recall they've had a history of waiting until they were taken to court and then delayed until the products were so old that people lost interest or had already junked them.

Who remembers the big Ford Debacle of the 60's with their cars shifting into reverse and running people down when they left the motor running so it would warm up while they scraped ice and snow off the windows or loaded their groceries. Ford now brags on how there were the first to install a brake interlock as a safety feature but omits how there were forced to do this after they ran out of delaying options. Younger folks don't remember the why of this and I doubt today you would find much if any reference to it on-line.

On review I find that they started posting these old cases on line over the past 10 years. Here's one on the failure to stay in park issue on Fords made since 1966 which were deemed 12 to 14 times more likely to jump out of park and run people down the a GM or Chrysler:
https://www.autosafety.org/ford-tran...ure-hold-park/

Look at how out of hand the cruise control fire hazard issue had to get before they finally found a cheap enough fix for that problem. Remember how long was it before they admitted it was a problem and warn folks that they needed to unplug the cruise control at the master cylinder and then how long it was before they came up with a cheap enough fix.

We still find F53's out there that did not have the J-Tube intake fix done on them since Ford really did not pursue this as an active recall so there are still motor homes out there that will vacuum up water during a heavy rain from an intake tube just below the front bumper which can cause the air filter to get water logged and ingested by the engine taking out valves and cylinders.

Look at all the Mustangs still out there where to save money they made the gas tank part of the trunk floor with the folded metal facing the rear bumper and the seam of the envelope facing the occupants of the rear seat. They delayed fixing that for so many years despite having many cars in a minor rear end collision douse the rear seat occupants with gasoline which ignited and burned them to death. Adding a metal firewall to prevent that such as other manufactures had already made standard at the time would have prevented that. Fiat for example had a similar drop in tank in their trunks even in the late 1950's but fire walled the trunk so this was known to the industry Globally with other manufactures dealing with it proactively though this was ignored by Ford.

Ford's tactics worked out for them financially however they're are no poster child for taking care of things quickly or proactively unless their statisticians say there is a large enough cost benefit.

That said I still prefer the cons of the F53 to the other brand class A gas chassis.

"The Devil We Know" as the expression goes.

[C-Leigh Racing]

Those tapered lug nuts like Tejay was using, to center up the wheels, are a number 99929.1, 14 mm x 1.50 thread from Advance Auto Parts.
Neil

[LSC9901]

Sorry to bring life to this thread again but I have a question about wheel centering. Does anyone know for sure when/if Ford corrected the problem of centering. I have a 2008 WGO which I suspect is on a 2007 chassis. We put on new Hankook tires this year and I notice a small vibration at about 50 MPH and then it disappears at around 55 MPH. I took it back to the tire dealer and they rebalanced the steers and it was better but not completely gone. It is most certainly something I can live with as it really is minimal but if the tapered lug nut fix would correct it even more I'd be willing to try but first I'd like to know with some certainty that the issue still existed for my chassis.

Thanks

[TeJay]

I don't know when they tightened up the clearances with the F-53 rims. We have a 2013 and I'm only trying the wheel center thing because I got an old/new lather and can machine the lugs to get the wheel centering closer.

Currently I think it's still on this thread you can see my postings and it lists in thousandths how far off the wheel was with HUB centering.

Waiter21 had a 1999 unit and I know he had imbalance that was corrected using the tapered sleeves. So I'm positive his RV had a lot more play in the hub area.

Here's a way of determining if your's has to much play and needs some sleeves or machined lugs to assist in the final centering.

I thought this was the original thread that had all the pictures but I looked and there are none. If I can find the original thread I'll post a link.

Just pull off the wheel cover and look at your hubs. There are 4 maybe 2" long cast iron tabs that stick out of the center area of the hub. The very center is machined round and fits over those tabs which assist in getting the wheel over the center which is supposed to automatically center the rim over the hub.

Now using some feeler gauges see how much space is between the tabs and the center hole of your rim. All four of mine varied between .008, .010, .006, .014 etc. Nothing to big but it was still not exactly centered.

If I'm not mistaken somebody reported on the other thread that even moving his wheels a little as .010 made a significant difference in the vibration.

The weather is getting better and I did buy a reamer this past winter. What I plan on doing is ream 3 or 4 stud holes out. I can't lay the rim on a table and use a drill press. If I use a reamer with a metal collar or even a hose clamp so each hole will be reamed the same distance and hopefully the same size then I can machine lug nuts to match.

I'll install 7 lug nuts and lightly snug them down. Then install the tapered lugs and loosen the other 7 then torque the tapered ones. That should move the rim so it is exactly centered over the tabs. That's easy to check with the feeler gauges.

Torque the 7 lugs down,. Remove the tapered lugs and install the real ones. Torque and that should hold them in place.

I found the thread, google on these forums at the top page. That's got all the pictures.

F-53 Vibration issues.

[TeJay]

NeilV,

Good post. I'm old enough to remember the Fords burning passengers. They recalled the Ford Pinto but had the same issue with other models but never recalled them because nobody had brought and law suits against them.

I was teaching in Detroit during some of that time (1971 - 1982) and we heard a lot about it.

I love the one about the side push button seat belts release that cam loose in roll over accidents. WHY??? If you can push a button in to release the seat belt you can also smack the backside of the belt buckle and the belt comes loose. That was eventually fixed by installing the button on the top and we push down.

I don't remember how many vehicles were recalled for that but I know it was not every car that had that style of release.