Community Forums

crawford6934 · 05-11-2022, 01:54 PM

Hello,
New member here.
I'm traveling with my family full time RVing in our 2004 Monaco Ex. The coach only had 28000 miles on it when we bought it in Salt Lake City, Utah. We've traveled to WA stste and down the coast to I-10 and headed to Pensacola, Fla. Pensacola is "home base." We bought a NEW (holy molly expensive) Thousand Trails membership. And, we're in Arley Al now. Headed out in 3 days for somewhere in TN. I think (wife is navigator and planner) - Wife is threatening to call for return to Pensacola if I don't figure out what's wrong with our engine. It won';t start unless I put gas or starting fluid in the air intake. I've got a few things I'm going to try. But, before I do I'm going to find a Primary replacement filter and pump. I think I have the original filter and pump the coach came with.

MSHappyCampers · 05-11-2022, 02:12 PM

Hi ! Welcome to IRV2! We're sure glad you joined us!

Congrats on the new rig! Maybe someone here can suggest a solution. Have fun and keep her between the ditches!

Good luck, happy trails, and God bless!

**Lt Dan** · 05-11-2022, 02:41 PM

First off, Welcome to IRV2!

What chassis and engine do you have? That will make a huge difference in the type of answers you get.

crawford6934 · 05-11-2022, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lt Dan

First off, Welcome to IRV2!

What chassis and engine do you have? That will make a huge difference in the type of answers you get.

RoadMaster Chassis - Detroit Series 60 - Mfg. date Oct 2003 - Model 60, 14.0L - I read here on the forum that there can be issues with filters (counterfeit and just getting the right thread and hook-up) I've been told they no longer make my Primary Pump and filter unit. So, I wonder if I can just replace the whole works with somthing like a Fass diesel fuel system?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jlVE-ZK4Lo

https://fassride.com/

darnold9999 · 05-11-2022, 05:59 PM

Before I did anything else I would just replace the fuel filter(s). I can't imagine that it is the original that came with the engine, but if it is it is WAY past time to replace it - and may have damaged the pump and injectors as it is likely responsible for water separation as well as filtration. If it is the original or even very old be careful to not introduce contamination into the fuel system when changing it.

The fact that it runs after starting with ether indicates to me that the problem might be an air leak in the fuel system somewhere, that means the system needs to refill the fuel lines before it will start. Ether will run it long enough to do that.

jacwjames · 05-11-2022, 07:17 PM

If you have any type of grid heater I would caution you about putting starting fluid into the air intake to start. Starting fluid is not great to use. I working in mining and we actually forbid the purchasing department from buying any starter fluid for any of the mines.

Agree on changing the fuel filters.

Check air filters.

What condition is your chassis battery, if it's weak it may not be turning over the engine fast enough.

crawford6934 · 05-11-2022, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darnold9999

Before I did anything else I would just replace the fuel filter(s). I can't imagine that it is the original that came with the engine, but if it is it is WAY past time to replace it - and may have damaged the pump and injectors as it is likely responsible for water separation as well as filtration. If it is the original or even very old be careful to not introduce contamination into the fuel system when changing it.

The fact that it runs after starting with ether indicates to me that the problem might be an air leak in the fuel system somewhere, that means the system needs to refill the fuel lines before it will start. Ether will run it long enough to do that.

Thank you for your input. I fully agree - if I could / if I knew where I could get a Primary fuel filter and secondary filter (Detroit brand preferably) I would sure try that first.
I'm afraid to pull the old one off until I got replacements because I really think they are original. The coach only had 23000 miles. ( They look a bit rusty) I had the oil changed and was told by mechanic they couldn't find replacement filters.

Here's what I think happened- We were LOW on fuel. I pulled off the road on a steep slope ( 30 - 40 degrees) for about a min. or 2 minutes. And, the engine fuel pick-up is on the passenger side, so it was sucking air. When I pulled off the slope the engine died / wouldn't start. After filling tank the engine was started using gasoline in the Air intake (inside Air filter) - I drove 260 + miles and thought it was going to be ok. Self prime with engine running normal. ?it wasn't - engine will not start with out help.
I think it's probably one of 2 (maybe 3 things) The Primary Filter is now clogged and the Primary fuel pump on top of it isn't pulling fuel from the tank. (Once it's running the fuel pump on the engine keeps it running - putting extra work on the engine fuel pump, I'm afraid) I'd love to, at least, get a Detroit fuel filter for the secondary filter replacement that's attached to Fuel pump on the engine. If I can find one!
Because the engine is so old I don't think a replacement Primary fuel Pump is the best option. (I don't know) If I could determine the fuel pressure to the engine I'd get a Fass fuel "system" or something like it.
Question: How long do the fuel lines last? With only 30 K miles now the fuel lines should be OK ?
And, yes I'm going to start it with WD-40 (maybe) tomorrow. NO Ether
If I have the serial number for the engine can't I be sure to get the right filters? Somewhere??
You're absolutely right darnold9999 - Got tp replace these filters. Where do I get the right filters?

153stars · 05-12-2022, 06:53 AM

If filter your talking about is remote mounted and has clear strainer on the side, it is not the lift pump but Winn/Racor filter system . It's used to "help" prime engine and purge air after changing filters or running empty ect. Sounds like you have a lift pump issue, lift pump runs first, primes/pressurized the injector pump then inj.pump takes over ,but I don't know the DD motor used in MHs at all but Monaco did use Winn/Racor on high end models. Can you post pic of filter/pump your talking about. Racor filter or cross reference other brand are still available for Winn , don't disrupt the clear strainer unless it's all plugged up, its seals are no longer available doubled/pair of O-rings were the solution.

crawford6934 · 05-12-2022, 09:27 AM

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12TN...ew?usp=sharing

crawford6934 · 05-12-2022, 10:27 AM

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...FK?usp=sharing

Folder with all the filter pics

dizcom · 05-12-2022, 10:35 AM

As others have said, something in the fuel delivery is dirty. Start with the filters and go from there. You don't want to be using starting fluid.

darnold9999 · 05-12-2022, 01:15 PM

The only fuel filter number I could see in your pics was the Fleetguard FF5206 and that filter is easily sourced. The other one I would be willing to bet is a Fleetguard FS19596 fuel/water separator - also easily sourced (I just bought one six month ago - in stock at my local truck parts dealer). If nowhere else, directly from Cummins. I would worry about a mechanic that could not find both filters? Possibly could not find them in the time allocated for the work would be the only acceptable reason for not changing both filters when you had it in for service? Fuel filters and water separation are critical systems in a diesel. Replace these filters before doing anything else. The clear bowl actually looks good in terms of the color of the fuel however I don't believe there should be any air in it at all and it looks like the top half in inch or so is air not fuel - hard to tell in the picture. It has been a long time since I looked at one of these so not completely sure. If you can get the top o-ring I would clean this out and try to figure out where the air is coming from. Braided fuel lines if there are any, and any connection point would be where I would look.

No need to get Detroit filters the Cummins (Fleetguard) ones that you have are as good or better and should be easily found at a truck parts dealer that services heavy trucks.

153stars · 05-18-2022, 06:41 PM

You can also install a Racor clear bowl on the bottom of the filter to see if any water or slime is is forming at the bottom. Not like you don't have plastic strainer already. I would definitely use lift pump and Shrader valve at top of Racor system to purge the trapped air to see if it comes back.

153stars · 05-21-2022, 12:03 PM

One member with a Cat .. had a similar issue . I stumbled across a vid of fuel return valve that was his issue.... several mechanics didn't find $30 valve problem. The fuel return valve didn't seal and lost prime every day letting air back from return line. As well as not wanting to re-prime because of lack of back pressure and it acting as a check valve. Maybe DD has similar valve on or near injector pump.It was under a like a pipe plug/cap , just a spring loaded plunger into a seat . A simple design used for many liquid systems to control or relieve pressure . I actually think Cat guy said could have just fiddle with and clean up the valve to keep going if he knew it was there earlier.