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Old 04-26-2021, 01:48 PM   #1
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Ignition Dead - Coach won't start...

In a nutshell:
2011 American Tradition 42M
Turn ignition key one click to the right - everything powers up, lights, etc.. clicking etc... everything seems ok.
Turn key to start position - nothing... dead..
Turn key to the left (ACC) then quickly all the way to the right and the engine turns over 3 times then stops turning over!
WHAT I'VE DONE
I replaced the keyed ignition switch.
I replaced the 2 Chassis batteries.
I pulled and tested the Chassis fuses in the engine bay and all were ok.
I called SPARTAN twice and got different suggestions from different tech's, one said it was a bad Solenoid the other had me checking other relays/fuses in the side engine battery bay all tested out ok.
I tested the large red wire going to the solenoid. I got 12.5V with ignition in the left (first click) position.
I tested the small red wire on the solenoid- should show voltage when holding the key in the start position ...this showed no voltage when someone was holding it open.
Thoughts...if it was starter/solenoid, why is it turning over 3 times and stopping abruptly? Shouldn't it be non-responsive?
I pulled and tested ignition related fuses in both compatments.
I tested 2 ignition relays(80A), driver side outside front compartment. One did not work and was bad, the other was OK. Ordered new RELAY. Hope this new relay solves the problem. DO THEY BOTH HAVE TO BE WORKING TO GET AN OPEN CONNECTION to the SOLENOID and might this be the problem?
ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS, thoughts, ideas or questions.... PLEASE SHARE..
THANK YOU...as I await a new Relay..
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Old 04-26-2021, 01:59 PM   #2
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One easy way to check the starter solenoid is by jumping the larger wire on the starter solenoid that goes to the battery to the small red wire. The starter solenoid should engage and the rig should turn over. It should start if you have the key in the on position. The other thing you can do is disconnect the small red wire from the solenoid and apply 12 volts to it and trace back with a test light to see where that 12 volts is being lost. You have an open circuit somewhere.
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Old 04-26-2021, 05:18 PM   #3
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Just for kicks what happens when you hold down aux start button and try starting.
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Old 04-26-2021, 05:30 PM   #4
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Speaking only of my MH; I had a similar problem which turned out to be loose positive connections on a terminal block on the front of the firewall where 12V fed the cockpit area.
That tidbit cost me a $180 service call at a rest area where the engine would start but when shifting the tranny into gear the engine would die and cockpit area go dead. Wait 20 minutes and repeat, over and over.
Moral, insure ALL wiring connections are clean and tight.
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Old 04-27-2021, 08:56 AM   #5
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Nothing... tried that...
Very frustrating when it does turn over when turning the key quickly from the left to the right. but it only turns over three times and stops dead. I think something energizes the line, then the safety relays shut it down cause the logic failed somewhere.
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Old 04-27-2021, 10:42 AM   #6
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I think I would be looking real seriously at the starter itself. Have someone put a meter on the starter while you try to start it. If the voltage stays the same after the starter stops turning pull the starter. If the voltage drops to zero then the problem is probably not the starter.
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Old 04-27-2021, 10:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMBAMTCoach View Post
Nothing... tried that...
Very frustrating when it does turn over when turning the key quickly from the left to the right. but it only turns over three times and stops dead. I think something energizes the line, then the safety relays shut it down cause the logic failed somewhere.


What motor?
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Old 04-27-2021, 11:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMBAMTCoach View Post
In a nutshell:
2011 American Tradition 42M on a Spartan Chassis
Turn ignition key one click to the right - everything powers up, lights, etc.. clicking etc... everything seems ok.
Turn key to start position - nothing... dead..
Turn key to the left (ACC) then quickly all the way to the right and the engine turns over 3 times then stops turning over!
WHAT I'VE DONE
I replaced the keyed ignition switch.
I replaced the 2 Chassis batteries.
I pulled and tested the Chassis fuses in the engine bay and all were ok.
I called SPARTAN twice and got different suggestions from different tech's, one said it was a bad Solenoid the other had me checking other relays/fuses in the side engine battery bay all tested out ok.
I tested the large red wire going to the solenoid. I got 12.5V with ignition in the left (first click) position.
I tested the small red wire on the solenoid- should show voltage when holding the key in the start position ...this showed no voltage when someone was holding it open.

Thoughts...if it was starter/solenoid, why is it turning over 3 times and stopping abruptly? Shouldn't it be non-responsive?
I pulled and tested ignition related fuses in both compartments.
I tested 2 ignition relays(80A), driver side outside front compartment. One did not work and was bad, the other was OK. Ordered new RELAY. Hope this new relay solves the problem. DO THEY BOTH HAVE TO BE WORKING TO GET AN OPEN CONNECTION to the SOLENOID and might this be the problem?
ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS, thoughts, ideas or questions.... PLEASE SHARE..
THANK YOU...as I await a new Relay..
Note bold.

The large red wire to the solenoid, if it was connected by a nut to a stud, is the power cable directly from the battery and it is powered all of the time, regardless of the position of the key in the ignition. Your test confirmed you have voltage from the battery but there was no need to turn on the ignition key. Because you replaced the two chassis batteries, we can assume there is enough amperage in the batteries to drive the starter motor.

The small wire to the starter solenoid should show voltage when the key is turned to "start", as you state. This is, IMO, where you problem lies. I'm not familiar with your chassis wiring, but if you have two ignition relays, more than likely they both need to function for the starter to work. You also have a neutral switch, which may be one of those relays, that must function for the starter to work.

It is possible to jump the bad relay and see if the starter works, if you're willing to try that.

As far as why the starter cranks three times under the conditions you posted is just a guess, but at least you know the starter works. Because you by-passed the self-check sensor sequence when you did the rapid key switching, there may be a safety circuit involved that prevented the rest of the ignition controlled circuits from operating thus, the engine did not start and the starter stopped after three cycles. I know on my coach, I have accidentally turned the key to "start" before allowing the check sequence to finish and I get no response from the starter, period. Once the sequence finishes and all dash lights are lit, the starter works perfectly.

If you wish to run the starter a bit longer and see if it still stops after three cycles, use a large insulated screw driver to jump the battery connection on the solenoid with the one on the starter, just below it. That will cause the starter motor only to run without turning over the engine.

If you wish to test if the batteries are adequate to turn over the engine, you can jump the battery connection on the solenoid with the small red wire terminal on the solenoid. That will engage the start drive gear from the solenoid, and starter motor, causing the engine to turn over for as long as you keep the connection. Be sure ignition is OFF or the engine will start.
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Old 05-08-2021, 07:00 AM   #9
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wiring issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMBAMTCoach View Post
In a nutshell:
2011 American Tradition 42M
Turn ignition key one click to the right - everything powers up, lights, etc.. clicking etc... everything seems ok.
Turn key to start position - nothing... dead..
Turn key to the left (ACC) then quickly all the way to the right and the engine turns over 3 times then stops turning over!
WHAT I'VE DONE
I replaced the keyed ignition switch.
I replaced the 2 Chassis batteries.
I pulled and tested the Chassis fuses in the engine bay and all were ok.
I called SPARTAN twice and got different suggestions from different tech's, one said it was a bad Solenoid the other had me checking other relays/fuses in the side engine battery bay all tested out ok.
I tested the large red wire going to the solenoid. I got 12.5V with ignition in the left (first click) position.
I tested the small red wire on the solenoid- should show voltage when holding the key in the start position ...this showed no voltage when someone was holding it open.
Thoughts...if it was starter/solenoid, why is it turning over 3 times and stopping abruptly? Shouldn't it be non-responsive?
I pulled and tested ignition related fuses in both compatments.
I tested 2 ignition relays(80A), driver side outside front compartment. One did not work and was bad, the other was OK. Ordered new RELAY. Hope this new relay solves the problem. DO THEY BOTH HAVE TO BE WORKING TO GET AN OPEN CONNECTION to the SOLENOID and might this be the problem?
ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS, thoughts, ideas or questions.... PLEASE SHARE..
THANK YOU...as I await a new Relay..
Check all wiring to engine ,if bad bad or dirty ,you won,t get dash lights or ignition.
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Old 05-11-2021, 03:41 PM   #10
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I had something similar happen to me on my 2008 Dutchstar. I turned the key, everything powered up, turned it to crank the engine would crank over but not start. Checked all fuses etc and it turned out to be a dead ECM. Mobile tech couldn't even hook up a computer to it. So if all the wires are tight, not frayed, not corroded, fuses good, relays good, lots of power...you may want to consider checking the ECM.
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