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02-26-2020, 07:48 AM
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#15
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 10
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Spartan Speedo problem
Hi Steve, I also have the same problem on my 2005 Dutch Star. Please let us know what they found. Thanks
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02-27-2020, 10:04 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 233
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I had the exact same problem on my 2004 Essex. Had it to Cummins twice, once to a Allison service center and once to a Newmar service center, no fix. Finally took it to a spartan approved service center and after 3 1/2 months of trouble shooting still no fix. It came down to either the engine ECM or the transmission ECM. They asked me what I wanted to do because there will be no return on either ECM’s if they swapped it out and it didn’t fix the problem, my choice. Longer story shorten I chose the engine ECM. Around $3,500 later just for the ECM still not fixed. Only thing left was the transmission ECM, another few thousand. Service manager said he would talk with Spartan one more time before the final swap. Spartan told them that the transmission ECM has a extra connection port in it and to try switching it over. Sure enough, problem solved. It was the electrical connection in the transmission ECM that was defective. No longer own this coach but had not had and more problems with it.
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02-28-2020, 07:04 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 478
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My research suggests that others have run into this problem and found similar solutions -- bad connections on either the engine or transmission ECM. A few have traced the problem to a broken pin or bad connection in the harness plugs carrying the data forward to the speedometer. In most all the cases the troubleshooting was long and expensive. That is why I am interested in gathering as much information as possible before I take the coach in for service. Currently, I drive the coach with a GPS affixed to the dash but the lack of cruise control makes the driving experience tedious and stressful.
__________________
2004 American Eagle, 40L
Cummins 400 ISL, Spartan Chassis
2009 Honda Fit Sport
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02-28-2020, 10:12 AM
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#18
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Junior Member
Retired Fire Service RVer's Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 20
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Alright everyone here is what they found at M&M. They tracked the wires and at the engine ecm apparently the pins on the ecm are gold, on the harness they are not. Moisture somehow got in the connection and I believe that with the dissimular metals it caused corrosion which they cleaned. They thought they found the issue. But no. Then they found an ohm issue on the wires which led them to the ABS computer. After a lengthy delay with Spartan including programming the computer and following up on checking the many grounds it seems they fixed it... for now. Now I had also replaced both the guages, tach side and speedo side earlier. The costs for the guages was around $800. The ABS computer with programming $2200. The labor time 8.5 hrs. at $120 per. Time rv spent in the shop 5 months. I have read the many posts regarding the gauges throughout this site and they all helped, so thank you all. Hope this helps. We will see you on the road
__________________
Steve and Terri '05 TS40d 400hp / '95 wrangler
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02-28-2020, 10:43 PM
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#19
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 10
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So Steve, did they tell you what the actual problem was or did they just tell what they did and it started working? It doesn't sound like they know exactly what the problem was.
Not trying to be a smart a--, it's just that I have the same symptoms and have been working on this problem for several months as well. We have determined the speed signal is not getting to the ECM and the next step it to replace the wiring harness between the TCU and ECU. Difficult task.
Any additional information would be greatly appreciated.
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02-29-2020, 11:52 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donprovince
So Steve, did they tell you what the actual problem was or did they just tell what they did and it started working? It doesn't sound like they know exactly what the problem was.
Not trying to be a smart a--, it's just that I have the same symptoms and have been working on this problem for several months as well. We have determined the speed signal is not getting to the ECM and the next step it to replace the wiring harness between the TCU and ECU. Difficult task.
Any additional information would be greatly appreciated.
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Did you read my post above about the Allison ECU. Might try that first before replacing harness.
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03-02-2020, 11:12 AM
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#21
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Junior Member
Retired Fire Service RVer's Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 20
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M&M started with the grounds. They checked behind the dash, in the front electrical compartment and in the battery compartment. The latter is where they found some corrosion. I had changed the gauges because the speedo head is the main source of control for all gauges. They found corrosion on the pin connectors on the engine ecu which they thought would most likely cause the fault. They still were showing an ohm issue in the data (pink and gray) wires at the ABS computer. The engine ecu had corrosion not the transmission ecu. My trans ecu is in the elect. power cord compartment and protected from the elements. The abs computer is above the drive axles and the engine ecu is in the engine compartment. They replaced the abs computer and eventhing worked fine. The ohm issue went away and so far the gauges seem to work fine. Our first trip is in May and we will have more of an idea if its correct. Total time I was charged for was 8.5 hrs. I did a lot of research through Spartan and on this site regarding this issue. All the computers are tied together. Checking the ohms seem to lead towards the issue, be it a broken wire, dirty connection or a bad computer. Good luck. M & M coach specialists. They are in Victorville, Ca. (909) 627-6000. They recently moved from Chino to Victorville
__________________
Steve and Terri '05 TS40d 400hp / '95 wrangler
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03-02-2020, 11:23 AM
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#22
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Junior Member
Retired Fire Service RVer's Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 20
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To donprovince, M & M is in Victorville, two hours south of Vegas on the 15
__________________
Steve and Terri '05 TS40d 400hp / '95 wrangler
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03-02-2020, 05:08 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 478
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Thank you for the follow up, Steve. I'm a long way from CA. But this should help me discuss my issue with a Spartan shop on my side of America.
__________________
2004 American Eagle, 40L
Cummins 400 ISL, Spartan Chassis
2009 Honda Fit Sport
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03-02-2020, 08:07 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North America somewhere
Posts: 30,655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenTerri
Alright everyone here is what they found at M&M. They tracked the wires and at the engine ecm apparently the pins on the ecm are gold, on the harness they are not. Moisture somehow got in the connection and I believe that with the dissimular metals it caused corrosion which they cleaned. They thought they found the issue. But no. Then they found an ohm issue on the wires which led them to the ABS computer. After a lengthy delay with Spartan including programming the computer and following up on checking the many grounds it seems they fixed it... for now. Now I had also replaced both the guages, tach side and speedo side earlier. The costs for the guages was around $800. The ABS computer with programming $2200. The labor time 8.5 hrs. at $120 per. Time rv spent in the shop 5 months. I have read the many posts regarding the gauges throughout this site and they all helped, so thank you all. Hope this helps. We will see you on the road
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The galvanic action chart re-enforces your thinking.
__________________
2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD , ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG 11B5MX,Infantry retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA. " My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy
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03-02-2020, 08:09 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North America somewhere
Posts: 30,655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenTerri
Alright everyone here is what they found at M&M. They tracked the wires and at the engine ecm apparently the pins on the ecm are gold, on the harness they are not. Moisture somehow got in the connection and I believe that with the dissimular metals it caused corrosion which they cleaned. They thought they found the issue. But no. Then they found an ohm issue on the wires which led them to the ABS computer. After a lengthy delay with Spartan including programming the computer and following up on checking the many grounds it seems they fixed it... for now. Now I had also replaced both the guages, tach side and speedo side earlier. The costs for the guages was around $800. The ABS computer with programming $2200. The labor time 8.5 hrs. at $120 per. Time rv spent in the shop 5 months. I have read the many posts regarding the gauges throughout this site and they all helped, so thank you all. Hope this helps. We will see you on the road
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The galvanic action chart re-enforces your thinking. Only 1 metal corrodes, gold is the most resistant to corrosion.
__________________
2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD , ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG 11B5MX,Infantry retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA. " My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy
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03-07-2020, 10:29 PM
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#26
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 10
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As a follow up to our issue with the speedometer on 2005 DSDP 4023. Original problem was no speedo, ABS light and Check Eng light. Also, cruise control and odometer did not work. Started out as intermittent eventually faults were constant.
The problem turned out to be the connector between mid coach and rear backbone harness. Someone, maybe the factory, used electrode gel on the plugs and it had hardened and added resistance which corrupted the data on the J1587 databus. Even though it indicated continuity the data was corrupted. After soaking the plugs in cleaner overnight and reconnecting everything it works perfectly.
Allison and Cummings both worked on the problem but could not fix it.
Gareth at Las Vegas Bus Repair and I worked together to resolve the issue.
If anyone would like more details regarding the process we went through to find the problem I would be happy to send you wiring diagrams and share what we learned. You can Messenger me. Thanks Gareth!!! You are an awesome troubleshooter.
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03-09-2020, 06:22 AM
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#27
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 478
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PM sent. Thank you.
__________________
2004 American Eagle, 40L
Cummins 400 ISL, Spartan Chassis
2009 Honda Fit Sport
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07-19-2020, 12:53 PM
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#28
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Washington
Posts: 63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donprovince
As a follow up to our issue with the speedometer on 2005 DSDP 4023. Original problem was no speedo, ABS light and Check Eng light. Also, cruise control and odometer did not work. Started out as intermittent eventually faults were constant.
The problem turned out to be the connector between mid coach and rear backbone harness. Someone, maybe the factory, used electrode gel on the plugs and it had hardened and added resistance which corrupted the data on the J1587 databus. Even though it indicated continuity the data was corrupted. After soaking the plugs in cleaner overnight and reconnecting everything it works perfectly.
Allison and Cummings both worked on the problem but could not fix it.
Gareth at Las Vegas Bus Repair and I worked together to resolve the issue.
If anyone would like more details regarding the process we went through to find the problem I would be happy to send you wiring diagrams and share what we learned. You can Messenger me. Thanks Gareth!!! You are an awesome troubleshooter.
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PM sent regarding wiring diagrams.
Thank you.
__________________
2005 Newmar Dutch Star 4023
370 HP Cummins / Spartan
04 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
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