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Desdinova · 07-21-2020, 11:12 PM

So my trailer pops the site breaker (or house if at home) when I leave the AC on for a few hours. But after a bit of analysis, it seems that the AC is only the straw the exacerbates another problem.

I have a Hughs Watchguard on the rig so it tells me what the wattage, volts and amp draw is. The last two times I reset the breaker, once the power came back on the rig was drawing about 16 amps with NOTHING turned on yet. The first time I thought something was stuck on the AC, but this time I insured the AC cycled completely off.

I started turning off circuit breakers in the rig, and while I won't be able to test again until tomorrow when I can blow the main breaker again, it appears the Water Heater was drawing 15 amps eventhough it was OFF !!! None of the other breakers caused the load to go down from 16 amps.

Here at the house (between trips), I don't have the water heater on most of the time, and it was NOT on today. But when I threw the breaker labelled WH, I heard a distinct additional "click" from the rear of the rig near where the water heater is and the AMP draw immediately dropped to like 2 amps. When I turned the breaker back on, it remained at 2 amps, and I even turned the hot water heater on and it just went up to I think 7 amps... something minimal.

16 amps is something significant and other than the A/C I can't think of any appliance with that steep of a draw.

Any thoughts on what's going on?

RoadrunnerII · 07-22-2020, 06:57 AM

Assuming you have water in the WH otherwise your are going to kill the electric element in it.
If you haven't that might explain the high draw.

RoadrunnerII

1st-tt2018 · 07-22-2020, 07:23 AM

Could also be a bad switch in the electrical side of the water heater at the control panel.

Also check that your fridge is not in a defrost cycle using door seal heaters. Just a thought.

Desdinova · 07-22-2020, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadrunnerII

Assuming you have water in the WH otherwise your are going to kill the electric element in it.
If you haven't that might explain the high draw.
RoadrunnerII

Water in heater. The first time this happened was while we were camping.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1st-tt2018

Could also be a bad switch in the electrical side of the water heater at the control panel.

Also check that your fridge is not in a defrost cycle using door seal heaters. Just a thought.

I guess this is possible, but not sure how. When it happened the other day, after restoring power I cycles the AC to off.. and then turned it on again the load dropped, but I think that was total coinsidence based on yesterday of the amps only dropping when I turned tripped the hot water heater breaker.

I'm going to trip the main breaker now, without the AC on, then cycle the power back and see what the draw looks like. Trying to test if it's a "start up" thing, or a failure thing.

1st-tt2018 · 07-22-2020, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desdinova

Water in heater. The first time this happened was while we were camping.

I guess this is possible, but not sure how. When it happened the other day, after restoring power I cycles the AC to off.. and then turned it on again the load dropped, but I think that was total coinsidence based on yesterday of the amps only dropping when I turned tripped the hot water heater breaker.

I'm going to trip the main breaker now, without the AC on, then cycle the power back and see what the draw looks like. Trying to test if it's a "start up" thing, or a failure thing.

Your water heater element should draw between 9 amd 13 amps when first starting up.

Desdinova · 07-22-2020, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1st-tt2018

Your water heater element should draw between 9 and 13 amps when first starting up.

True enough, but it wasn't on. This is the part that I'm worried about. The Water Heater switch (on the panel) had been off since we left the campground a few days ago.

The reason "Water Heater" is in the conversation is because even with the WH panel switch off, when I turned it's circuit breaker off.... the load dropped and I heard a "click" that came from the rear of the rig. When I turned the water heater breaker back on, the load did NOT go back up, as expected because the switch was still off.

Kinda lost on how to trouble-shoot at this point. I can't recreate other than leave the A/C (high draw device) on long enough till the breaker pops. Which is several hours.

So far there have been FOUR instances... with details.

1. Water Heater OFF, A/C on and after a few hours circuit breaker pops (just chalked up to house voltage.

2. Same as #1 above...

3. At campground, HW heater on, A/C on, after a few hours main breaker blows. When I reset breaker, I notice on my monitor there is a high load, but I ignor for the moment, turn A/C back on... goes to really high load (expected sorta)... so I shut off A/C via thermostat control and load drops to near nothing. I Turn A/C back on, all is fine.

4. At home, HW heater OFF, A/C on, after a few hours main breaker blows. When I reset breaker, I notice on my monitor there is a high load, this time I leave A/C off. I open breaker panel and start turning off breakers one-by-one and if load doesn't drop, (and it didn't) turning the breaker back on and move to the next. When I get to the Water Heater breaker, I turn it off, I hear an additional click from the rear of the rig (not specifically sure where) and the load finally drops. Turn Water Heater breaker back on... load remains low as it should. Note. Hot water heater was not on at all. But "something" on the Hot Water circuit breaker WAS drawing a load.

I hope this helps explain it better.

RoadrunnerII · 07-22-2020, 06:11 PM

Try this...
Pull the HW heater breaker out of the panel.. Check for arching on the contacts... Same for the hotwater tank switch.. Betcha one of them has arched enough on the contacts to cause your issue.. I had a bad breaker where the buse bar connector on it was twisted and arched. Hot water breaker.. Would pop the mains breaker

RoadrunnerII

YC1 · 07-22-2020, 06:24 PM

The HWH probably is controlled through a small relay that may be mounted on or near it. If you can find the model it would help.

IF the relay contacts are sticking the switch on the panel may not be turning it off. But the circuit breaker removes the voltage to the HWH, the 110 volts that is.
Turning the breaker off may allow the contacts to cool and release.

Being in the electronics for 50+ years anything is possible.

Leave the breaker off for a couple of days to see if this clears things up.

Desdinova · 07-22-2020, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadrunnerII

Try this...
Pull the HW heater breaker out of the panel.. Check for arching on the contacts... Same for the hotwater tank switch.. Betcha one of them has arched enough on the contacts to cause your issue.. I had a bad breaker where the buse bar connector on it was twisted and arched. Hot water breaker.. Would pop the mains breaker

RoadrunnerII

I think you are both onto something here, thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YC1

Leave the breaker off for a couple of days to see if this clears things up.

Feeling kinda silly I didn't think of that. Not gonna be warm until the weekend, but worth a try.

The only thing that's putting a big 'ol question mark in the cloud above my head is... 16+ amps. The A/C is the only thing that comes close to that. I can even make coffee in the Kuerig with the A/C on.

1st-tt2018 · 07-22-2020, 08:49 PM

What I usually see with large amp loads over time is bad connections. A bad or loose connection heats up, as it heats up, more amperage is drawn and the cycle goes on. You may also have loose connections in your load distribution box, bad connections at the AC, and bad connections at the water heater. If you start to feel over your head with this, please contact a licensed electrician to go over your system.

Desdinova · 07-22-2020, 11:27 PM

Well THANK YOU for your assist folks...

If I've said it once, I've said it 1000 times. This VIBE is a great design, with quality parts (for the price) PUT TOGETHER BY MORONS !!!!!

Every issue I have had, was not only just a sloppy build issue, but in EVERY case, just like this one, easily avoided. Almost easier to do it the right way than whatever way it was done.

Bottom line.. I don't know which breaker went in first, but I assume the master and it wasn't put in straight so all of the others below it were not straight. While I didn't see any signs of arcing, I'm sure only part of each blade was making the connection to each breaker.

I know it's not obvious in the photo below, so I drew a yellow line in photoshop across the top breaker in both the before and after so you can see how cattywampus (yeah I used the word cattywampus) the breakers were installed.

1st-tt2018 · 07-23-2020, 06:04 AM

Glad you got it fixed and thanks for posting the pics. Hopefully thus will help someone with the same issue later on![emoji106]

Desdinova · 07-25-2020, 07:28 PM

Not quite figured out yet..

So for some reason, my water heater is pulling about 14 amps, sometimes, even when the water heater panel switch is OFF !!!

However, I can go to the back of the rig, and if I shut turn the switch off located on the water heater, the load finally drops off.

I guess the question is, why is my water heater drawing a load when the panel switch is off? Off should mean OFF, not "sorta off except for the part that's still on.

And by the way, other than to do a quick test as part of this trouble-shooting, I haven't left the WH Panel switch on at all.

And FWIW... if I DON'T turn on the panel switch, there will not be HOT WATER. I've been woken up in the am enough times to know this. So what is this 15 amp draw from the water heater that obviously isn't heating water?

1st-tt2018 · 07-25-2020, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desdinova

Not quite figured out yet..

So for some reason, my water heater is pulling about 14 amps, sometimes, even when the water heater panel switch is OFF !!!

However, I can go to the back of the rig, and if I shut turn the switch off located on the water heater, the load finally drops off.

I guess the question is, why is my water heater drawing a load when the panel switch is off? Off should mean OFF, not "sorta off except for the part that's still on.

And by the way, other than to do a quick test as part of this trouble-shooting, I haven't left the WH Panel switch on at all.

And FWIW... if I DON'T turn on the panel switch, there will not be HOT WATER. I've been woken up in the am enough times to know this. So what is this 15 amp draw from the water heater that obviously isn't heating water?

Ok, so are you saying there is power to the water heater if the breaker is off?

If that is the case, please change out the breaker before there is a fire.

Otherwise, it points to a bad switch supplying power(ie not actually turning off power/failed in the on posituon)...replace switch.

As far as the increased amp draw, that points to a failing element.