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Morguns1cam · 06-16-2021, 11:52 AM

My 98 Windsor water heater works on gas but not electric. Not getting any AC to the heating element , element ohms out ok, but no Power to it, the breaker is good, Ive replaced the control board which got the gas side working. The power switch in the galley is a 12vdc rocker switch and is good and has 12vdc present this activates a relay somewhere to apply the 120vac to the heater. I cannot locate the relay, looked in all panels. The breakdown on the Surburban SW10DE water heater doesnt list a relay or contractor so its in the coach somewhere.
Apparently wiring diagrams for these coaches dont exist anymore.
Anyone know where it might be?
Thanks!
Cam

veraken · 06-17-2021, 05:48 AM

Here's the Surburban Trouble Shooting manual which may help you.

Gary RVRoamer · 06-17-2021, 10:12 AM

Any external 120v relay would be "customer supplied", at least from Suburban's viewpoint. The customer being the builder of the Windsor, in this case. Yo won't find any further info about it in the Suburban documents.

Your Suburban should have two on/off switches, one for LP gas and one for 120v electric. Are you sure the 12v switch you referenced is how Monaco controls the 120v source? If yes, then trace the wires to the relay, either by following the 12v wires from the switch or the 120v wire from the circuit breaker. I'd bet it,s close to either the breaker end or the water heater end, but that's just a guess on my part.

Morguns1cam · 06-17-2021, 11:15 AM

I have the troubleshooting guide for the water heater and as I said, the relay in question is not part of the water heater so thats no help. And yes the 12vdc switch is original equipment on the motorhome . I cant turn myself into a mouse and crawl thru all the nooks and crannies and follow the wiring to the relay, hense the-reason for the post. Wondered if anyone had been down the same road and had found it. But thanks for the replies!
I will update here when I figure it out.

Old-Biscuit · 06-17-2021, 11:31 AM

Suburban SW10DE does NOT have a DC Relay for the AC element
AC is DIRECT from Circuit Breaker (15A) to the AC ON/OFF Switch in the outside compartment (Lower Left Corner) to the Set of 120VAC T-stats (above gas valve..left set) to the Element (oval cover below Burner tube)

IF High Temp t-stat is tripped...no AC to element---Manual Reset
Push To Reset Cover...left button is for the AC
*Right one is for the 12VDC...GAS

SW10DE 120VAC & 12VDC wiring
https://diagramweb.net/img/suburban-...-diagram-5.jpg

Suburban does have a model with DC Relay but NOT from your time period
*SW10DEL ---relay is in AC Junction Box on right side of water heater tank looking from the backside

SW10DEL AC & DC wiring

Morguns1cam · 06-17-2021, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

Suburban SW10DE does NOT have a DC Relay for the AC element
AC is DIRECT from Circuit Breaker (15A) to the AC ON/OFF Switch in the outside compartment (Lower Left Corner) to the Set of 120VAC T-stats (above gas valve..left set) to the Element (oval cover below Burner tube)

IF High Temp t-stat is tripped...no AC to element---Manual Reset
Push To Reset Cover...left button is for the AC
*Right one is for the 12VDC...GAS

SW10DE 120VAC & 12VDC wiring
https://diagramweb.net/img/suburban-...-diagram-5.jpg

Suburban does have a model with DC Relay but NOT from your time period
*SW10DEL ---relay is in AC Junction Box on right side of water heater tank looking from the backside

SW10DEL AC & DC wiring

All correct , so as I said THE RELAY IS NOT PART OF THE WATER HEATER, it was supplied by the coach builder, the question is where did they put the relay? The relay may have been installed in the ac junction box by the coach builder but I cant access that junction box to find out without completely removing the water heater from the coach.

Old-Biscuit · 06-17-2021, 02:30 PM

Once again RV MFGs do NOT make it easy.....RV Designers NEED to work on repairs etc for a year before they get to 'design' anything

Good Luck......

Maybe have MOD moving this thread to the Monaco Subforum so more Monaco Owners will see it

jacwjames · 06-18-2021, 09:17 AM

Do you have the wiring schematics for your coach.

On mine where they show the 120 volt distribution panel they show a separate panel, 6X6" Ormon panel. Within this box are 2 relays, one is for the water heater, the other is the Engine Heat.

The box is located behind my main 120 volt panel, almost impossible to get to without taking the main panel out and/or the my EMS circuit board.

The water heater element is 120, the switch is 12 volts, so the relay receives the signal for the switch, closes the relay and provide power to the water heater.

I found my panel when I was troubleshooting a problem with my EMS. I found the relays. One did show signs of heat on the terminal wires so I replaced terminal ends. I then contacted Monaco and inquired about the box, they responded explaining the 2 relays. I ordered a spare relay from Monaco but they didn't stock and just provided me with the number. Ordered a relay from EBAY.

Morguns1cam · 06-18-2021, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacwjames

Do you have the wiring schematics for your coach.

On mine where they show the 120 volt distribution panel they show a separate panel, 6X6" Ormon panel. Within this box are 2 relays, one is for the water heater, the other is the Engine Heat.

The box is located behind my main 120 volt panel, almost impossible to get to without taking the main panel out and/or the my EMS circuit board.

The water heater element is 120, the switch is 12 volts, so the relay receives the signal for the switch, closes the relay and provide power to the water heater.

I found my panel when I was troubleshooting a problem with my EMS. I found the relays. One did show signs of heat on the terminal wires so I replaced terminal ends. I then contacted Monaco and inquired about the box, they responded explaining the 2 relays. I ordered a spare relay from Monaco but they didn't stock and just provided me with the number. Ordered a relay from EBAY.

Thanks Jim, no no drawings cant find any anywhere! You would think yhey would come with the coach!
Yours being a 2002and mine is a 1998 chances the relay box is in the same place! Ill give it a look! Thanks again,
Cam

jacwjames · 06-18-2021, 02:54 PM

If you aren't using the engine heater (if you have one) you could swap relays to get the water heater gong and then get a replacement for the block heater.

The Monaco PN I got back in 2014 was 16621138 (it was $11 in 2014), then using it on the REV website show it listed as out of stock
https://parts.revgroup.com/item-deta...ganizationId=9

But they also provide the part number so should be readily available

https://www.bonanza.com/listings/G8P...yABEgKLA_D_BwE

Morguns1cam · 06-20-2021, 06:39 PM

Ok! The relay is in the 120vac breaker panel! Took the cover off the panel and low and behold there is the relay glued to the inside of the breaker box!
Unfortunately the relay isnt the problem! When the water heater switch is turned on Ive only got 10v on the relay wire which drops to 0 v when connected to the relay, Ive got 12.6vdc on both sides of the switch ( on position) so Im loosing connection from the switch to the relay.( this wiring runs through the slide out loop!) so as a Temp fix I ran a wire from the 12vdc fuse box to the breaker box and installed a push button switch to supply 12vdc to the relay so I can switch the relay from there! Alls well that ends! Thanks all for the assistance!
Cam