Community Forums

Daveinet · 03-07-2017, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earlylynn

I do think a 300 HP gasoline powered front wheel drive train equipped with an 8 speed transaxle would work. Although the final drive ratio required might not fit in the existing transmission case. Michelin 225/70 R 19.5 tires only turn 648 rpm...

But who has a transaxle that can handle the weight? Otherwise you are stuck modifying an existing front drive axle. No one wants a solid axle, so you end up having to customize the differential tubes. Then you need axle half shafts industrial grade. That gets tricky as well as there are not tons of options. As soon as you go custom, the price sky rockets. Yes, you take existing components and mash them together, but it still requires customization. As soon as you go custom, it puts the cost above that which is practical. You also will have trouble selling it, as no one wants to buy a one off that they can't get parts for.
Newmar New Aire is the closest to what you describe and they did not sell that many. It was a great idea but didn't sell.

George Schweikle · 03-07-2017, 07:56 AM

Your original post had a description of your concept and asked if this would generate any interest, and I think it would. As my earlier comments indicate, we are on our second Safari Trek. This was designed and sold as a smaller, high-end motorhome and it cost a good bit more than anything else in it's length yet presumably generated a profit for Safari and maybe Monaco. Reading this forum, and RV magazines, reveals there is a small segment of owners that are downsizing from big DP's, or never buy one in the first place, yet will pay for an upscale product. Witness a recent test of a RoadTrek Class B with a MSRP around $165,000.

Your concept would never be a mainstream motorhome; rather something that would fit in a niche market where people will pay more for something unique with high quality and features. As mentioned by others, finding such a sweet spot has been tried before with mixed results. Once your design is complete, your balancing act is to manufacture it at a profit.

This has been an interesting conversation. The "Bill" you mention is Bill Estes, publisher of Motorhome magazine, correct?

Quote:

Originally Posted by earlylynn

.... I also am talking about a square tube space frame, not some complicated monocoque design. I do think a 300 HP gasoline powered front wheel drive train equipped with an 8 speed transaxle would work. Although the final drive ratio required might not fit in the existing transmission case. Michelin 225/70 R 19.5 tires only turn 648 rpm.
I want to use a gasoline engine for its ability to be quiet. I would use 2 alternators and the Onan inverter /charger/engine control unit.
I feel a lot of discouraging thought here for what I see as a fairly straightforward plan. I ran this idea by Bill Estee a couple of years ago before it was complete, and he was impressed.
I don't necessarily want to start a new company if I can get an existing company interested. I do want the prototype. I am no CAD operator, but I have it on paper with dimensional drawings which I will not publish here.

nothermark · 03-07-2017, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earlylynn

I have a new chassis design in process and would like to find a way to get it into production.
This chassis would provide the basis for a 24 foot class A motorhome that would support a full-time lifestyle with computer and file drawer space, a stack washer and dryer, a full bath, a queen size bed, 6 foot of closet rod with drawers underneath, a pantry, a complete kitchen, and a 6 foot sofa.
In the chassis is room for 100 gallons of water, 65 gallons of Grey water, and 45 gallons of black water and 60 gallons of fuel.
I am planning on using the Alde heating system for hot water and heating.
I would use a lithium ion battery bank and multiple input charging, land line, solar, and alternator.
Would a motorhome such as this generate any interest?

Interest, yes. Sales, probably few if any. Assuming the question is not about the chassis but the house the simple answer is that it is one of those things that look better than they work out to be. 24 ft is too small without the stack W/D. Something like it might work for folks who want to live outside the unit with a hard shell to retreat to. It's not enough space to spend a few rainy days or cold weather.

FWIW You will probably have a real issue getting a chassis to handle the weight and still have any tow capacity left. I assume you are thinking 24 ft will be short enough not to need a towed but BTDT, it's not. OTOH it might let one get by with rentals in city metropolitan areas. I also think there will be problems getting the tankage in. You are looking at roughly double normal. Maybe a bit more than double. You will also have limited roof space for solar assuming you are thinking in that direction.

Daveinet · 03-08-2017, 06:31 AM

You may want to consider what everyone says about the GMCs - they drive much better than they camp. Very difficult to fit a dry bath in 26 feet, let alone 24. Even at that, the storage is marginal. If you really want your floor plan in a motorhome, talk to Jim Bounds at GMC COOP. He will build you a GMC with any floor plan you want. Rebuild all the mechanics so you have a brand new motorhome. If you got a 100 grand or so, give him call, he will build what ever you want.

If you think your idea will sell, then front him the money to do it, and you can sell them and take all the profit.

George Schweikle · 03-08-2017, 03:06 PM

If you can build a prototype, who knows what could happen?. You might find a niche where your concept could be a viable product.

The John Crean biography (Founder and CEO of Fleetwood before he was kicked out) has an interesting chapter. He and his son built the prototype Bounder; the first basement motorhome. These were pretty awkward looking with the taller roof but regular height windshield. However, once a few dealers realized the benefits of the basement design they agreed to try some, and the rest is history.

Quote:

Originally Posted by earlylynn

...I don't necessarily want to start a new company if I can get an existing company interested. I do want the prototype. I am no CAD operator, but I have it on paper with dimensional drawings which I will not publish here.

Daveinet · 03-09-2017, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Schweikle

If you can build a prototype, who knows what could happen?. You might find a niche where your concept could be a viable product.

The John Crean biography (Founder and CEO of Fleetwood before he was kicked out) has an interesting chapter. He and his son built the prototype Bounder; the first basement motorhome. These were pretty awkward looking with the taller roof but regular height windshield. However, once a few dealers realized the benefits of the basement design they agreed to try some, and the rest is history.

Newel built the first with a basement motorhome, long before the Bounder.

srogers · 03-11-2017, 11:26 AM

I represent the probable target audience for this: "younger" (than many RVers, at 41), childfree by choice, not planning to full time (cuz hey, we're not retired, yet) and seeking a shorter wheelbase/body with the open liveability of a class A. I'm sure another segment of the target is retirees looking to boondock/stay under 30'. Sprinters are nice and all, but the most open of them (Leisure Travel Van murphy bed layouts) still does not offer the open and airy interior of an A.

We have a 1991 23' Fleetwood Flair that we picked up for a song and are rehabbing. It has the ideal dimensions for us, because its short length allows travel nearly everywhere, but it offers so much more space and liveability than a class B or B+. Eventually we want a Safari Trek 2430 because it's a similar footprint and way better made than our old-ass Fleetwood. The Trek seems like our ONLY option that fits what we want. Unless you come up with something that doesn't cost the consumer $115k!

I've long believed that is a huge hole in the current market. The Vegas/Axis 24.1 from Thor is really all that's out there, other than Sprinter based options (lower GCWR).

Isaac-1 · 03-11-2017, 11:40 AM

It is interesting how many times the Safari Trek is coming up in this thread.

Ike
p.s. I have a 2002 Safari Trek 2830

George Schweikle · 03-17-2017, 06:23 PM

Well, I learned something. However, in spite of their excellence, I would suggest that Newell doesn't really qualify as a mainstream motorhome. Fleetwood surely was the company that started the popular movement to basement models with the Bounder.

I suspect many of today's owners have never seen anything but basement models. The advantage is that the rear axle tire clearance height is below the floor, so the floor plan design not affected by the wheel wells protruding into the living area like under the the dinette seat and kitchen cabinets in our old 1983 Winnebago. Winnebago later built some early basement models, but in addition to a partially raised floor, the storage projected significantly downward and reduced ground clearance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daveinet

Newel built the first with a basement motorhome, long before the Bounder.