50 AMP - 30 AMP - Availability

[bobfrommaine]

Thirty amp serivce will give you (at least in my rig) one A/C, the inverter/charger, TV/Satellite and hot water heater. If I want to run the 2nd A/C, I first must shut off the first A/C. In 2 years of full timing being in a park every night, and perhaps 30% having only 30A serevice, I've never popped a breaker. If I'm in really hot environment where outside temps approach 90+ and I'm in bright sun, I'll fire up the generator, run both AC's to get the temp down to 'tolerable', then resort back to just one A/C and use park 30A power.
Good luck;
Bob '17 Winnebago 37F Adventurer; Jeep toad.

[permitwriter]

Our coach is 50 amp but works fine on 30. Just watch what is running. Early on we had one AC running, we have residential fridge, we were using our countertop oven and I turned on the microwave. The AC went off. Whoops. So I shup off the AC, finished cooking dinner, and turned the AC back on. Now, I am more attentive to such things and have never had a problem since.

When hooked up to 50 amp, the 2 AC units are on one leg & everything else is on the other. I installed a 50 amp outlet at home, there was problem with the breaker and only one leg was hot. The only things that worked were the 2 AC units.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by Lockman1958

Need help I’ve been told it’s a good idea to have a good surge protector however when I look at them I find the price varies from under 100.00 to over 400.00 can anyone tell me the difference. Thanks

100.00 = Surge Protector only. Waste of money. 250.00 = EMS Good protection. 350.00 = Autoformer. Added protection. Autoformer + EMS = Best Protection.

https://rvmentor.com/2019/11/24/ems-...o0_1M3_i4tQ-P0

https://www.technorv.com/articles/do...rge-protector/


https://hughesautoformers.com/run-yo...arding-nfpa70/

[AnotherMike]

I'm new to this thread.. but... You really want more than just a surge supressor. You want a power protector.

to quote "Gary RVRoamer" in a different thread...
> There are different levels of function under the label "surge protector". The most basic is exactly that - it protects against power surges (brief high voltage spikes) in the incoming power. Beyond that are two more functions found in the more expensive models. One is a power outlet wiring test, which verifies the campsite outlet is correctly wired, i.. hot, neutral and ground as specified in the electrical code. The second is a realtime voltage monitor that continuously verifies that the line voltage is within safe limits, typically 108v-126v. This prevents damage to appliances such as air conditioning compressors.
>
> If all the campsites you visit have up-to-spec wiring and power management, you don't need the second two functions. Unfortunately, some do not. Especially older campgrounds or ones created by semi-pro electricians. Think of the surge/power monitor device as a $300 insurance policy against bad park power.

Another vote for the Progressive EMS units... EMS-PT30X for 30 amp, EMS-PT50X for 50 amp. Both have lifetime warranty - this means you only have to buy it once. And you definitely want a unit with protection from low voltage. Probably much more common than people realize, especially in the hot hours of the summer when everyone has the a/c running or batteries charging. Low voltage will kill things like a/c units quickly. The cheap "surge suppressors" don't provide the low voltage protection to your coach systems.

If you get a portable unit it plugs into the power pedestal, if you get a
permanent unit and mount it inside your coach then it won't become a thief's target... Put it inside! One friend added a plug and receptacle between the transfer switch and the breaker panel - positioned there also protects against a generator fault, although the odds are low of a issue in the genny... but they do happen.

A quote on portable units:
> Please keep in mind that if you lock the device to the pedestal (bicycle lock or a chain and lock) make sure that you do not prevent opening the pedestal breaker cover. It's just common sense, plus some RV places prohibit anything blocking the breaker cover - they want access to the breakers in case of emergency or fire someone has to be able to shut off the power.

A while back an acquaintance had to replace his shore power cord on his RV... In his case the coach end is hard wired into the coach i.e. no connector at the coach end. The first couple of feet were undamaged, so he purchased a replacement plug and a 25 foot extension cord. He then whacked the old cord off at the 1.5 foot length and installed the new plug. The rest of the old cord went to copper salvage. He now has his expensive Progressive portable EMS unit on the coach end of the cord, and he hides it behind his power cord door (which has a lock). His attitude is that if you can't see it, it's not there, and can't be stolen.

That configuration makes for secure use, easy replacement, never any concern about being too bulky to close a pedestal lid, keeps it out of the elements, and in a pinch you can simply remove and direct connect if needed.

Another good application of portable units: He pulls into a park, and while his wife does the paperwork he unhitches the toad. She takes the toad and the portable EMS and finds the assigned spot, checks for any issues (like overhanging branches) and tests the power. If the EMS says "bad" she calls him on the walkie-talkie and he gets a new spot assignment and passes on the information. Once she reports that the EMS is happy he follows her directions to the spot, parks it, and hooks up.

Another quote:
> I spent years without a surge suppressor and never had anything burn out, but in preparation for full timing, I purchased a Progressive Industries EMS unit and it's saved us from low voltage twice in the first 6 months. Once in the winter time when people were using electric heaters in an old campground, and once when people were overloading the park power during a heatwave. Not only was everyone running all their air conditioners, they were charging their cars and golf carts too. In both cases voltage dropped below 104 volts, and the unit shut off power to my rig until it recovered.
>
> I have the model that shows voltage and my load on each leg so I can monitor my own load.

One last concern about EMS units... if you have a power cord reel here's a
warning I saved from another comment thread...

> Here's a heads up for anyone who hasn't had the problem yet. If you have a electric cord reel, (especially Southwire) be careful with it. DO NOT RUN THE REEL IN OR OUT WITH CURRENT FLOWING !!! The motion will burn up the brushes and contacts inside the reel. Per their tech support Cord Reel Expert, "yep that happens. It gets a little dust, dirt or debris, the cord gets pulled when the AC current is flowing, and the brushes arc at the debris. Then when the reel moves past that exact place again, it arcs some more. Eventually it burns up."
>
> In a best case scenario it's the hot lead that opens up and leaves you with no power. In a worst case scenario it's the neutral that opens up - on a 30 amp RV you just have an outage and a fried reel. In a 50 amp RV the open neutral causes major problems and seriously fried electronics all over the coach.

Mike

[PandS]

Originally Posted by augerdogger

We have had all electric RV's since 2001 and have used both 50 and 30 amp service. The 1st 2 did not have EMS and we had to be careful. The 2nd RV had 2 4kW inverters and supplemented 30A service when necessary. The last 2 have had EMS and I plug-in and let it do it's thing. I do have to inform the EMS whether I have 30A or 50A. Don't you love technology.

8000 WATTS of inverter? WOW! What brand and model of Coach is that? -Paul

[JohnLoves2Sk]

I have a Discovery 39L, we can run everything we NEED on 30A, no problem. If we need both AC units, we can shift the water heater to propane and not use the convection oven/microwave. Really not much of an imposition.

The biggest issue is my cute wife's blowdryer and hair straightener in the morning. Those 2 have a pretty heavy draw!

[PandS]

Originally Posted by pogoil

Our all electric coach works just fine on 30 amp. And yes there are many 30 amp camp grounds out there.

Run one air conditioner, the hot water heater, the induction cooktop, and the microwave/oven. In other words, cook supper on a warm day. Then maybe have the battery charger cut in.



Let me know how you make out...... -Paul

[NeilV]

Originally Posted by PapaBrer

Hi All,

Another newbie question, I have an Itasca 37F. It has a 50 AMP service for incoming power and most of the time I have been reserving campsites w/50 AMP service. However, I have noticed that sometimes when I check for 50 amp sites there are none available but there are full hookups w/30 AMP service. I have all the adaptors for lower AMP services so no issues connecting.

I was just wondering what loss of use I should expect if I utilize a 30 amp connection versus of 50 amp connection. Is there some great loss of use on my RV or will i just have to limit what I power on at the same time? Thanks,

The PowerLine Management System Winnebago uses does a pretty good job of managing loads on a 30 amp service and allows both Air Conditioners to be used most of the time. The only things that will cause you issues will be with using high current draw items such as microwave ovens, portable space heaters, hair dryers, toasters, coffee makers, etc all at the same time as each one of those can use 10 amps or more power so you have to be aware and not do things like run a coffee pot along with a hair dryer at the same time and expect both AC units to run. Try to run a toaster along with the other items while the AC is running and you'll more likely trip a breaker. Before that happens though PowerLine will during high current draw turn off things like the second AC unit, electric water heater element, electric element in the refrigerator, battery charger and turn the AC fan speed to low however it can't turn off the microwave, coffee pot, hair dryer, etc.

My 2001 Adventurer 35U is a 30 amp coach and the only time I am actually limited to using only one AC Compressor (Basement Air is 2 Air Conditioners in one box each with its own compressor) is when on a 20 amp service.


So yes you will be able to use everything and just have to be aware to not run too many high current draw appliances at the same time.

[tropical36]

Originally Posted by PapaBrer

Hi All,

Another newbie question, I have an Itasca 37F. It has a 50 AMP service for incoming power and most of the time I have been reserving campsites w/50 AMP service. However, I have noticed that sometimes when I check for 50 amp sites there are none available but there are full hookups w/30 AMP service. I have all the adaptors for lower AMP services so no issues connecting.

I was just wondering what loss of use I should expect if I utilize a 30 amp connection versus of 50 amp connection. Is there some great loss of use on my RV or will i just have to limit what I power on at the same time? Thanks,

If you have a good EMS, it should take care of things for you by shedding the load when required. If you wish to cut down on some of this shedding run your hot water tank and RV fridge if you have one, on something other, like propane for instances.

[lsalem]

Originally Posted by cavie

They have DIY maintenance men who THINK they are electricians.

FYI, you can not plug a 30 amp RV into a 30 amp dryer outlet without the use of a big hammer!

Had a friend who replaced his 30A plug with a dryer plug and plunged it in to his dryer outlet. needless to say it cost him a new transfer switch. And yes he did use a big hammer.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by tropical36

If you have a good EMS, it should take care of things for you by shedding the load when required. If you wish to cut down on some of this shedding run your hot water tank and RV fridge if you have one, on something other, like propane for instances.

Not being a smart ass here. Just trying to help the newbies in the crowd understand RV electricity.

The typical EMS in the RV world does not shed loads. What you have in your MH is a Load shedding device miss labeled as an EMS. Don't know what they do that. An EMS (Energy Management System), The term used long before Load Shedding was thought about, Is a device that shuts down the incoming Electric Power before it gets to the RV. Usually between 108 and 132 volts. It also checks for properly wired pedestals. It will not hook up if not correct.


The device in your MH using the EMS name on it is a load shedding panel. It will remove the connected amp load on each leg of the incoming 50 amp 240-volt service to prevent tripping the breaker. Different pieces of equipment are assigned to be shed anytime the load exceeds 50 amps on any one leg of the 240-volt system. It works off amperage, not voltage. The original EMS system works off Voltage not amperage.

Hope this helps.

[twinboat]

The Energy Management System also senses If your on 30 amp service from shore power and load shead devices to keep 30 amp or less services from tripping breakers.

[mr.tommy]

We stayed in Maine this whole summer on my brother-in-laws property. We have a 50amp coach. I plugged into one of his 15amp garage wall outlets with a heavy duty extension cord, then used a 15amp-50amp dogbone to plug the coach power cord into. I also have a PI hard wired EMS. We lived all summer on 15amps. Up there in Maine during the summer you don't need any AC. Well we did need it 2 days but then I just started the generator. But the rest of the time we just managed our electrical usage by just turning on one large appliance—like the microwave—or two small ones at a time. A few times we would forget and turn on too much stuff and it would trip the breaker in the garage. I'd just reset the breaker and go back to using less items in the coach. Worked just fine all summer. We've done this for 2 summers. You just have to be watchful and manage your electrical usage.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by cavie

Not being a smart ass here. Just trying to help the newbies in the crowd understand RV electricity.

The typical EMS in the RV world does not shed loads. What you have in your MH is a Load shedding device miss labeled as an EMS. Don't know what they do that. An EMS (Energy Management System), The term used long before Load Shedding was thought about, Is a device that shuts down the incoming Electric Power before it gets to the RV. Usually between 108 and 132 volts. It also checks for properly wired pedestals. It will not hook up if not correct.


The device in your MH using the EMS name on it is a load shedding panel. It will remove the connected amp load on each leg of the incoming 50 amp 240-volt service to prevent tripping the breaker. Different pieces of equipment are assigned to be shed anytime the load exceeds 50 amps on any one leg of the 240-volt system. It works off amperage, not voltage. The original EMS system works off Voltage not amperage.

Hope this helps.

This is very helpful point and not well documented in layman's term in the Winnebago manuals. In my coach, I believer the Load Shedder is PCS (Power Control System); quite complicated to follow exactly how it works but I do know that while it can sense 50 or 30 amp service, I have to tell it if I only have 20/15 amp service. otherwise it assumes it to be 30 amps service if that makes sense.

Another thing that I think us newbies tend to get wrong is thinking we have EMS and we don't? The name Surge Guard is seemingly on everything. i.e. I don't think I bought EMS because I only bought the Surge Guard 44270. So while I have surge protection and miswiring indicators, I have nothing on voltage fluctuations.

If I knew better, or could get charitable donations; I would have bought the Southwire Surge Guard Portable 50-Amp 120/240-Volt Bluetooth-Capable Surge Protector 34951 $360

https://www.campingworld.com/southwi...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

Thus far I have only been at one campsite where it was NOT all green on indicators, I moved to next site over and the Camp Ground Ranger had no issue with us moving. I have yet to see power fluctuation issues, but my genset will start If I do lose power when connected to shore.