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Old 07-25-2021, 12:37 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by mr.tommy View Post
I didn't go into all the specifics in my original post# 4, since the OP was asking about something else. But since this thread is going into more about different values let me elaborate.

When I renewed my policy recently with Nationwide I adjusted my stated value. I told them I wanted a stated value of XXXXXXX. They agreed, the policy was written as such. BUT....they also said we will pay—up to—that maximum stated amount and no more in the case of a total loss. They went on to further say—for example—that in the event of a total loss the adjuster could deem that the RV was worth say 10K less than what was stated. Because the stated value is the MAX they will pay. So, in this example I'd have to prove that it was indeed worth my stated value of XXXXXXX and challenge the adjusters results and seek a higher value up to my stated value of XXXXXXX.

I know all of us struggle with insurance companies and how all these little details matter. It can get really confusing and that's by design IMO. For example as I said before with my "at fault" claim with National General, Nationwide reviewed the case—by reading the transcripts that were taken originally by National General when I filed a claim— and they said NO, we do not view this claim as a "at fault" accident and we will no hold you responsible and incur a higher premium. So two companies viewing this claim two different ways with the same information.

Now when you go insurance shopping there's no way you'll know how a company will view any claim until it happens. To much goes into judging claims. As in my above example. But another thing I have learned through that incident is, BEFORE you decide to call in for a claim, ask yourself, is this something you really want to do OR should do. And if you decide to file a claim make sure you're very careful about your wording in how the event took place. They listen and write down every word.

Let me begin by thanking you for your experience and insight.


Much of the confusion is terminology. For example, you made a clear distinction between "Stated Value" and "Declared Value." However, some companies, such as Hagerty, use "Stated Value" to mean "Declared Value", by your definitions, and use the term Guaranteed Value or Agreed Value to mean the fixed amount they will pay out on a total loss. Confusing? Absolutely!



Wait, there's more....


Guaranteed value policies can and are written to pay out the agreed amount and are not necessarily the maximum they will pay.


What this all means is the terms used and the coverage limits of policies, vary among insurers, and likely among states. It is important to get a clear understanding of what policy you are getting and what happens if a major or total loss happens.


Much of this confusion may be due to the fact the Guaranteed Value policies are typically for classic vehicles, not every day uses, and generally on appreciating assets. All the more reason to ask questions of the agents and get answers that make you feel comfortable.
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Old 07-25-2021, 01:49 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by mr.tommy View Post
Well I'm not sure I understand your first paragraph or not but JIC I want to clarify something. Whether the coach has had good previous maintenance or not it doesn't matter to insurance companies as far as appraising the rig. They are going to base the value on how "they" value the coach with similar coaches of the year, engine type, your driving record, where your domicile is, have you had any accidents or claims in the past 3yrs., whether your FT or not etc, etc.

I currently have Nationwide. I just renewed my policy. Good rates and vanishing deductible with no claims. I asked about an agreed value. They said I would have to have an appraisal but that appraisal would be good for 3yrs. My previous underwriter—National General—said I needed a new appraisal too but every year if I wanted an Agreed Value OR in the event of a total loss, I would need to prove that my value is much higher than what they offer if I wasn't pleased with there value. Nationwide said the same thing. I chose to not get an appraisal because it's to expensive and too big of a hassle in my view being a FTer.

Appraisals usually run around $250-$400 or so depending on the coach. The cost of an appraisal will be based on all the systems it has, how intense it is and who's doing it. I'd expect your coach would be more than normal.

Nationwide told me they had a list of appraisers if I wanted a reference, but I would rather have an independent appraiser if I was going to do that. I chose not to get it appraised. But in my case I keep immaculate records of everything I do, receipts, pictures and videos as my evidence. That's the risk I took.

Also, I've learned and practice that ANY small fixes or accidents—as I define by anything under a $1,000-$1,500—I do myself and pay myself and DO NOT report them to the Insurance Co. for a claim. Except if it was a windshield replacement. The reason is, by the time you pay your deductible and the insurance company fixes the problem you really only saved a few hundred bucks. BUT here's the kicker, you DID file a claim and once you do that when your next premium comes back trust me it will be much higher.

I had a claim with National General 2.5yrs. ago and they took care of it el pronto. But my next premium upon renewal went up $1,400. That's when I moved to Nationwide and they DID NOT penalize me with a claim because the way they saw the claim it was a "no fault" claim. National General saw it as an "at fault claim" therefore the higher premium. So I naturally switched to Nationwide and have been with them now 2 going on 3yrs. and no premium increases for our motorhome or toad.

If you decide to shop for another company once a claim is ever filed, the first things the new company are going to ask you are:
1) Have you had any tickets in the last 3yrs.
2) Have you filed any claims in the last 3yrs. (right there your dead with most companies) The rate they'll quote you will be higher than normal until that claim becomes 3yrs. old and is no longer considered on your record
AND....if you change companies, your vanishing deductible starts all over again, which in itself is worth a couple hundred bucks saved each year.

There is a company maybe two that claim they offer "1st time forgiveness" but I don't know exactly how that works, what qualifies you for that or what companies offer it.

Hope this helps some.
i figured the service was tied to safety in a used coach on new business with a insurance company, it would be if it were my company but moving on...

i will certainly take the independent appraisal frequency into account. i would be good with 3 years or every time i make a major change. i looked into companies that specialize in the transportation industry and found national assurance. they have an agent in marion nc. so i will call in the morning and check out the other recommended companies you guys are telling me about and see what my options are. i do not have a build sheet so i demand of myself to focus on this point before money changes hands. i contacted prevost who put me on to a guy with volvo, i just got his email today. i asked who they sold the chassis to. and then i can hopeful back track some more info.

like you i am very detailed on the record keeping so if i add or change something there will be no question because they are good at reducing claim costs. so we will agree on its worth today. its lost all its deprecation on the mechanical side. it should be an easier calculation for us both and should something bad happen i can show its well kept. like you i will handle most stuff except glass to keep the claim experience to special circumstance. it would be like a homeowners. they will boot you if you file claims whether out right or by employing higher premiums. they know me well between my business and personal i have worked with all lines of insurance companies and claims. i even had a cdl once. i went to a community college for the course using 18 wheelers. i did it for fun, my business was computers but knew one day i would need the experience. working with tags will help reduce claims exposure. i will point that out because your record plays a large role in the premium. but there are many angles to this and the agreed valve circumstance is new to me.

thanks
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Old 07-25-2021, 02:12 PM   #17
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That is why I asked for input. I knew most would not have this experience, their housecar has duplicates. In my mind the selection of the correct company and agent is of most importance so they understand the product you seek coverage for. often the dealer covers that in a cash sale you are own your own. most buyers are too busy to sit still and figure this all out. i feel lucky i can.

all this feedback is helpful now and later












Quote:
Originally Posted by Ljwt330 View Post
Let me begin by thanking you for your experience and insight.


Much of the confusion is terminology. For example, you made a clear distinction between "Stated Value" and "Declared Value." However, some companies, such as Hagerty, use "Stated Value" to mean "Declared Value", by your definitions, and use the term Guaranteed Value or Agreed Value to mean the fixed amount they will pay out on a total loss. Confusing? Absolutely!



Wait, there's more....


Guaranteed value policies can and are written to pay out the agreed amount and are not necessarily the maximum they will pay.


What this all means is the terms used and the coverage limits of policies, vary among insurers, and likely among states. It is important to get a clear understanding of what policy you are getting and what happens if a major or total loss happens.


Much of this confusion may be due to the fact the Guaranteed Value policies are typically for classic vehicles, not every day uses, and generally on appreciating assets. All the more reason to ask questions of the agents and get answers that make you feel comfortable.
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Old 07-25-2021, 03:50 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Ljwt330 View Post
"Declared Value" is not the same as "Stated" value. Declared value is what the insurance company begins with to caluclate the premium. Should an accident happen and the vehicle is totaled, the actual pay-out will be based on whatever the current market value is of that vehicle, regardless of the original declared value. This the most common type of policy and the one in which owners have to search the market to justify a higher pay out than the company is willing to pay.




Stated value is a fixed amount that will be paid if the vehicle is totaled. It is agreed to ahead of time. As mentioned, one may get less than the current market is charging for a like vehicle because it was already agreed that the fixed amount would be paid out. If you have a stated value policy, it is important to continually monitor the market and make adjustments on the stated amount over the years. This is mainly the concern of classic cars where they tend to be an appreciating asset.
You are incorrect sir. Stated value and declared value are the same. If you want to be paid a specific amount based on the fact that the item will not depreciate, or will appreciate, or for some other reason you feel the only way to replace if destroyed or stolen is for a certain value you need to have an agreed value policy. It is often referred to as an appraised value.

This is directly from Leland West. One of the larger specialty insurance companies.

“Remember the short/sweet payout clause for an Agreed Value? This is what Stated Value says about a total loss:

"In the event of theft or a total loss we will pay the Stated Value
or the Actual Cash Value, whichever is less."”

This is what they say about agreed value

If ACV is the problem, Agreed Value is the solution. If you have a classic insurance policy - from a dedicated company that only issues this sort of policy - this should be the kind of coverage you have. Instead of the above scenario with ACV, what happens instead is you and the insurance company agree on the vehicle value when you sign up - before the policy is issued and any money changes hands. In the event of a disaster, the insurance company guarantees to pay the value that the two of you agree upon before shaking hands. No ifs, ands or buts.

We said this "should" be the kind of coverage you have. You might not. To find out for sure, look in the physical damage section of your policy. Somewhere in there it will say what is going to happen if your classic car is a total loss. The exact statement should be very close to this:

You might see the term 'Guaranteed Value' in your insurance travels. What is that? 'Guaranteed Value' is just a marketing-savvy way of saying 'Agreed Value'. The two are the same.

However, its the actual language in the policy contract that spells out what and how you get paid; not an ad headline.

So have your agent show you where in the policy language your value is either Agreed upon or Guaranteed.

If they can't... it isn't.
In the event of theft or a total loss we will pay the Agreed Value.
Thats it. Short and sweet. No wiggle room. No more words. Agreed Value is a simple idea and if the coverage is what it claims to be it should be written up simply in the policy.“
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Old 07-25-2021, 04:42 PM   #19
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hi,
I pick my 22 year old coach up soon and have a million things to finalize and have been working on the insurance for a week, no dealer is involved. I did not know which coach I was going to choose and when I did I found I had wasted effort and been looking for the wrong information.

My coach is likely, like a lot of other prevost built to suit someone and not a cookie cutter and that only matters in the insurance dept. I feel like the agreed value will be my best bet even if it costs more. To replace or fix this thing more is the key word. I am counting on the maintenance being done from the records and that deserves a different post and matters here only from a value standpoint.

How have you guys handled it? I feel an appraisal is in order to put bullets in my gun. How do I handle that to get started? Is there a nationwide coach appraisal service? What are the best insurers for these coach types?

Thank you
Now that I am sure you have read all the posts. #15 from Tommy is what I feel the most logical.

If you purchase your coach for $xxxx and upgrade $xxxx you want a stated or declared value of at least that much. If you are sure that a market value search will bring back a replacement coach for that much you would be ok.

If you put $xxxx into it and want to be sure you get your money back out you want an agreed, guaranteed, or appraised value. If it’s gone tomorrow, no questions, you will be paid that amount.

An agreed value policy on a motorhome, and I’m guessing a 22 year old Prevost is somewhere in the $600,000 range will be expensive. Reason. You are using it a lot. On a 1932 model T that gets 500 miles a year, goes to car show etc, not so much.

With the rise in RV prices this year I upped my declared/stated value by $20,000. Yes my premium went up. But I could find a comparable 2006 Winnebago Journey relatively easily. Prevost not so much.

It’s all in what you want to pay and what you are willing to risk. Everyone thinks they have the best and the nicest of anything. Got the best deal and could never ever replace it for what they paid. I see it all the time. It’s what we in the insurance business call “emotional value” sorry, you can’t buy coverage for that.
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Old 07-25-2021, 05:01 PM   #20
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The terminology is indeed tricky and may not be the same across different carriers. Best to ask the agent what the terms he uses mean and tell him your expectation in the event of a total loss.


Some policies may state something like "purchase price protection", meaning they would pay the amount of the original purchase in the event of a total loss. That isn't typical on older rigs, though.


My understanding of "Agreed Value" is the same as Amosnandy described. The purchase contract may be accepted as a reasonable "appraisal" if it's a well-known model and the price isn't far off the market value fr prime condition, but an independent appraisal may be required if asking well above typical values or a "one of a kind" rig. But once the insurer agrees to the appraisal, that becomes your "agreed value".
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Old 07-25-2021, 05:03 PM   #21
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I am a bit confused, what is the purpose of paying extra for a "declared value" insurance policy if the Ins. company is only going to pay out the lessor of the "market/appraised or the declared value"? (in particular if the declared value is higher than the market value) ~CA
To answer your question, declared/stated value policies are the only way to insure a non conventional vehicle. When I say that I mean pretty much everything not covered under an auto policy. You are in reality buying a a stated value policy when you insure a car. You are insuring at preset rates for a 2010 Ford pickup which are not the same as a 2020 Ford pickup. When you insure anything other than a vehicle defined as an “automobile “ the insurance company has to set the risk to underwrite the premium cost.

An agreed or guaranteed or appraised value policy all mean the same thing. The will pay $xxxx no matter what. Kind of like a life insurance policy. You buy how much you want and both you and the insurance co gamble on how long you live.


Quick edit, when you buy auto insurance you can buy optional or additional coverage. Usually a policy covers up to $1,000 in optional equipment, but if you put a $3000;stereo,$5,000 in wheels and tires, a$10,000 paint job, the insurance company will pay the typical value plus $1,000, unless you have bought $xxxx in additional or optional coverage.
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Old 07-25-2021, 07:54 PM   #22
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Thanks guys. Yes the independent appraisal is my tool and I will read the portion that covers it. I just want to agree on an amount. Promise to do the required maintenance and keep it safe as possible with me inside. Re-appraisal and negotiate when a large change occurs. If it costs more I will have to find it in the budget. Its large and expensive and I would not be helping myself if I don't cya. I wont accept anything less.

I finally found the upfitter. I understand everyone retired. No one keeps 20 year old records from that time when it was all paper. Prevost did they had computers this company did not. it was a one off for a star. I did find a Prevost expert used by Volvo regionally and he can advise on value. So this is working out. I gotta keep at it. But I see some light. Now that I am compiling this documentation setting a valve will be doable and sound. I want it done in advance. Here is what I bought, here is what it looks like now. Upfitted with these items. I am not even sure at this point it matter what brand of furnace just that its there woking and capable of heating the coach and basement. Example a subzero is a subzero. At this level I wonder if I need to split hairs. I can video ever detail and share it with the insurance company before we agree. But the frequency of reassessment is something i will watch for. I would say we will have all the data by first of the following week. We can see how it currently works. I am feeling less desperate. I felt like i was in quicksand looking for this info. I finally got on the trail.
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Old 07-26-2021, 05:50 AM   #23
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I am a licensed insurance adjuster in Minnesota. Reading this post I see a lot of misunderstanding.

1st. A lot of people go to buy insurance and are asked what the rig is worth. They say $50,000. Understand the agent will write you a $50,000 STATED value policy. That means that is the MAXIMUM a they will pay in the event of a total loss. Example: I just had an older camper with hail damage. They had a STATED value of $6000. Probably what they paid for it several years ago. Value came back at $7800. They did not understand why they only got $6000. Because that’s all the coverage they put on it. Stated value may also be called “DECLARED” value. It will only pay up too that value. After an incident we think might be a total loss, we run a market valuation. The insurance co will pay the lessor of market/appraised or the declared value.

There really is no such thing as an AGREED value. It is really an APPRAISED value. Some companies call it either, but make sure they will pay the AGREED or APPRAISED value. They may agree to set a value just from purchase paperwork and repair/upgrade records, but to get an actual AGREED value they will probably require an inspection. Why? You asked? Insurance fraud. There are people who will sell an item at a greatly inflated value, write paperwork, and then it burns to the ground two months later.

On a Prevost, I would pay the money, get an appraisal and insure it for what it cost to replace. That may mean insuring it for more than you pay for it, or maybe even more than it is worth.

My son builds high end restoration, hot rods, and hand built customs. You may be able to go to Barret-Jackson and buy a 66 Impala SS convertible for $40,000 but if you had my son build you one, you might spend $100,000 to build it. That is what you want it insured for under a AGREED value.

If your Prevost is destroyed, how much would it cost you to not just buy another one but to make it EXATLY like the one you lost.

Make absolutely sure both you and the agent understand. And read your policy. I can’t believe when I ask simple questions to a customer “what does your policy say” they can’t answer. Nobody reads them, right? Well I assure you the insurance company will.
Confused-- you say there is no such thing as agreed value, but then say you need to get agreed value policy ????
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Old 07-26-2021, 09:25 AM   #24
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I am a licensed insurance adjuster in Minnesota. Reading this post I see a lot of misunderstanding.

1st. A lot of people go to buy insurance and are asked what the rig is worth. They say $50,000. Understand the agent will write you a $50,000 STATED value policy. That means that is the MAXIMUM a they will pay in the event of a total loss. Example: I just had an older camper with hail damage. They had a STATED value of $6000. Probably what they paid for it several years ago. Value came back at $7800. They did not understand why they only got $6000. Because that’s all the coverage they put on it. Stated value may also be called “DECLARED” value. It will only pay up too that value. After an incident we think might be a total loss, we run a market valuation. The insurance co will pay the lessor of market/appraised or the declared value.

There really is no such thing as an AGREED value. It is really an APPRAISED value. Some companies call it either, but make sure they will pay the AGREED orAPPRAISED value. They may agree to set a value just from purchase paperwork and repair/upgrade records, but to get an actual AGREED value they will probably require an inspection. Why? You asked? Insurance fraud. There are people who will sell an item at a greatly inflated value, write paperwork, and then it burns to the ground two months later.

On a Prevost, I would pay the money, get an appraisal and insure it for what it cost to replace. That may mean insuring it for more than you pay for it, or maybe even more than it is worth.

My son builds high end restoration, hot rods, and hand built customs. You may be able to go to Barret-Jackson and buy a 66 Impala SS convertible for $40,000 but if you had my son build you one, you might spend $100,000 to build it. That is what you want it insured for under a AGREED value.

If your Prevost is destroyed, how much would it cost you to not just buy another one but to make it EXATLY like the one you lost.

Make absolutely sure both you and the agent understand. And read your policy. I can’t believe when I ask simple questions to a customer “what does your policy say” they can’t answer. Nobody reads them, right? Well I assure you the insurance company will.
I'm confused by your post. I have liberally used appraisal in my post, in responses. And tied the value that I want to the policy to reflect to that appraisal and any changes upgrades that I make and then adjust by reappraising as needed. I can only assume that other people as they respond to the thread are just kicking the ball because it's all confusing. I spoke to good Sam this morning and I can tell you that their rates are higher than they need to be. I made two back-to-back phone calls GS and to somebody else and it was it was incredible how high they were. For the same progessive company. Just throwing that out there in general cause I haven't got what I wanted yet.

I guess right now I'm fighting to find an agent that has an understanding of the vernacular. I want an agreed value based on an appraisal to include future upgrades. That should not be hard but it's like pulling eye teeth
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Old 07-26-2021, 10:19 AM   #25
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I'm confused by your post. I have liberally used appraisal in my post, in responses. And tied the value that I want to the policy to reflect to that appraisal and any changes upgrades that I make and then adjust by reappraising as needed. I can only assume that other people as they respond to the thread are just kicking the ball because it's all confusing. I spoke to good Sam this morning and I can tell you that their rates are higher than they need to be. I made two back-to-back phone calls GS and to somebody else and it was it was incredible how high they were. For the same progessive company. Just throwing that out there in general cause I haven't got what I wanted yet.

I guess right now I'm fighting to find an agent that has an understanding of the vernacular. I want an agreed value based on an appraisal to include future upgrades. That should not be hard but it's like pulling eye teeth

As I mentioned in a previous post, the bold is exactly what you should be striving for, IMO. I believe you are clear on the type of coverage you want and it should not be difficult to reach agreement on what terms mean with an agent.



The real difficulty is applying these types of policies to anything other than classic vehicles or commonly appreciating vehicles. Further, every guaranteed value policy that I had on my various classic cars, did not permit daily or regular usage.



I would bet nearly all agents have little to no experience in writing guaranteed value policies on RVs. I think it can be done, but it will take your knowledge, fore-planning, and convincing to get what you desire in coverage. At the end of the day, your motorhome will never be a '57 Mercedes Gullwing in the eyes of insurers, but it certainly can be considered an out-of-the-ordinary vehicle that may be difficult to replace.
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Old 07-26-2021, 12:43 PM   #26
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Ok guys this is one to write down. Never trust the speedo. On a prevost and I bet on all buses maybe gasers too. Pull the info from your computer using the Detroit software. Any mechanic or person can do it. I learned that today. I was hooked up with a prevost savant. He tells me my coach was a medical bus that was turned into a motorhome. A nice one. But that matters only from mileage standpoint. The engine no worries...much... but there are concerns with the suspension, transmission, expensive wear items. So next step, the process stops until I can get the reading and see if there is anything to be worried about. This actually may reduce the chance for wear. I will just need to see. I don't want to have to do serious work to it right off the bat. I bet the seller does not have this info. I am learning a lot. This guy helping could make a killing helping folks determine if what they see is real. These can be reinvented.
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