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Old 08-26-2017, 02:27 PM   #1
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Air Suspension - Clean or Replace Air Dump Valve

Spartan EC2000 Series Chassis with Granning Air Suspension

For some background, please see this Thread: http://www.irv2.com/forums/f258/gran...on-352034.html

My front air system won't dump with the HWH Series 200 Air Dump Button, the rear will dump.

I believe I found the front Air Dump Valve, between what I think are the 2 hydraulic brake chambers. There is a air line with a 'T' connector near the front passenger air bag.

Pictures below.

I am having problems finding the Schrader Bellows 751140122 (I believe it says Bellows) air dump valve or even the manufacturer's website. Does anyone have info on this valve?

Is it SCHRADER INTERNATIONAL or parker.com ?

HWH appears to have their own Air Dump Valve, I'm not sure if they had the Schrader Bellows valves in the 90's or Gulf Stream sourced them.

HWH
https://www.hwhcorp.com/mr60200a_e_s..._DUMP_SOLENOID

The front valve does look like the one in the rear (see first link above) but I didn't get a clear picture of the rear valve label.

Not sure what I'd replace this valve with if needed.

I will try to clean the bottom air exhaust with something.

Does anyone else have this specific valve?

Any tips on cleaning this valve?



and 'T'




.
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Old 08-26-2017, 02:36 PM   #2
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We have the 500 series hwh on our coach. I am not familiar with the 200 seres but... last spring when I returned from fla my front end wouldn't dump. Ours dumps through the hwh valve body block, the block with 6 solonoids. On the block its self is an exhause port. This port was blocked with mud dauber mud and wouldn't let the air escape. I just sprayed it with lube spray and dug it out with a screw driver. Then dumped it to blow out the rest of the debris. I am sure if you google hwh 200 series trouble shooting manual you will find the info, actually it should be on hwh site. I found the same for ours and went through all this as well. Let me know how it works out.
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Old 08-26-2017, 02:46 PM   #3
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Yes, I read through that and I want to clean the valve first so was hoping for tips. The opening on the bottom is where I think I can insert something, I wonder If I should squirt some wd-40 in there. I want to confirm this is the Air Dump Valve as well.

I can't even find that model valve with google.



Quote:
There is a separate control wire for the front and rear dump valves.
The 9300 (YELLOW) wire should go to the front. The 9301
(YELLOW) wire should go to the rear.


Check for power at the proper pins on the light panel while pushing
the "DUMP" button. If either pin has no power, replace the panel.


If both pins have +12 power, check for +12 power at the dump valves.
If +12 volts and ground is present at the valve, but the valve will not
open, the valve is the problem. Make sure the air outlet is not plugged. Replace the valve if necessary
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Old 08-26-2017, 03:03 PM   #4
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You must first locate the exhaust port and yes spray some wd or something in there to loosed it up.

Second try this. The nut you see on top of the "can" will become magnetized when energized, so, have someone activate the dump and put a wrench to this nut and see if it is magnetized.

Warning! Anytime you are dumping the air the coach can drop down and crush you. I have to drive my coach up on 6x6 blocks to allow enough room for it to settle to frame without killing me. My coach will go almost to the ground. Use extreme caution I have been under mine.

So if it is magnetized then it is receiving electric. Next clean out the exhaust port and spray some stuff etc.

If it isn't magnetized check the wires for 12v power and ground contuinity. If no 12v check for fuse in that leg in your pannel etc.

If it's magnetized clean valve. Once again this will allow the coach to dump completely so put it up on blocks, stands etc. Don't get crushed.

Take the nut off the top of the "can". This will expose a post with a valve inside. When the magnet is energized it will pull the valve inside open allowing the air to escape. So once the black can is removed there is a large nut on the post you can unscrew. This will allow all air to escape and dump and or drop the coach on the frame. Be careful. Remove the valve and you can spray some stuff in the valve and use a small object to manually operate the spring loaded valve to verify its operation.

I can't stress being careful. I had a co worker crushed under a mower that wasn't suported properly and it fell on him. He didn't survive.

I had a valve stick similar to this and did the same thing, cleaned it out. It has been working fine since but, I ordered a new valve and magnetic can from hwh in case it breaks. I can change it out on the road if needed. I also have wood to drive up on if I lower coach.

So please, safety my friend. Explore these things and let me know if I can be of any more help.
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Old 08-26-2017, 03:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funjnt View Post
You must first locate the exhaust port and yes spray some wd or something in there to loosed it up.
Isn't the exhaust port on the bottom (pointing towards the ground)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by funjnt View Post

If it isn't magnetized check the wires for 12v power and ground contuinity. If no 12v check for fuse in that leg in your pannel etc.
So, maybe there are two fuses, 1 for the rear leg and 1 for the front. I'll also try to find a wire diagram for my HWH system and check for fuses. I'll try cleaning first.


My air is at ~35 psi and maintaining. There is clearance under the coach, even when I had it at 0 but this does make me nervous to be under while someone is pressing the dump button above.

So @funjnt, have you seen that specific valve?


.
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Old 08-26-2017, 05:57 PM   #6
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Doesn't look like rear/front have separate fuses, just a fuse for that HWH system

This diagram shows 1 front Air Dump Valve and 2 Valves in the rear, ours has 1 in front, 1 in rear but HWH documentation does state there can be "OTHER AIR DUMP VALVE ARRAIGNMENTS ARE POSSIBLE" and elsewhere does stay 2, 3 and 4 valves in the system are possible.

Interesting that the Valve pictured here does look like the two in this Coach.





.
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Old 08-27-2017, 06:48 AM   #7
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I would start by verifying the 12v and ground in the circuit. Do you have a test light and an ohm meter? Use the test light to verify the 12v and then use the ohm meter to ohm out the ground. In other words there is an ohm setting that puts small current through your probes. If you touch them together it should make a noise or show you the ohms which should be low as it is a complete circuit. Tough one probe to the frame and the other to the ground and you should get a complete circuit verifying the ground is good. Or, if you can hook the test light ground to the plug ground and touch the positive of the wire while someone is dumping you should get a light. Either way to hook up the test light doesn't matter if you can just connect the light to the two wires and complete the circuit.

If you have to take the valve out, drive up on some 6x6 blocks. Then loosen one of your air fittings to let the air out slowly then get out from under coach till it is sitting on frame. Then you can safely get under and take the valve out.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:43 AM   #8
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Heard back from HWH, they did provide that Air Dump Valve but it was a different vendor back then or the manufacturer was changed.

Quote:
RAP1653 and it will cost you $119.00 plus freight
Quote:
The RAP1653 is still round, the new one doesn't look exactly like the old one, I don't remember if the old manufacturer changed it or we are using a different vendor now but it will work just fine. The mounting screws that hold the valve in place are the same as the old one.
The mounting screws are on top on a small metal plate welded to the chassis. If these screws are rusty, it may be tough to unmount the existing one. Access is not the easiest there.

There was a Thread (I beileve on this site) where someone posted about taking apart that valve without the need to disconnect the air connection. I think you remove the bottom nut. Now, I can't find that post.

If anyone has a link to that thread or information about taking apart/cleaning that HWH system Air Dump Valve, please reply here.

.
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Old 08-31-2017, 06:35 PM   #9
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Any heavy truck or bus parts supply house carries 12v dump solenoids. Brand does not matter, just the size of the air lines. Bought four of these for $55 and changed them after exhausting all the air out of the coach. Do not try this without dumping all the air and blocking the wheels.
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Old 08-31-2017, 07:43 PM   #10
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I've only looked online, including NAPA but have not found similiar.

Looks like just the coil can be replaced on the HWH unit, removing the bottom nut. Perhaps that is what the other forum post (that I can't find now) was referencing


http://www.hwhcorp.com/mi150011.pdf

This valve is the 'OLD STYLE AIR VALVE' it looks like from the document linked above.

http://www.hwhcorp.com/mr051000.pdf


.
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:56 PM   #11
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Found a thread about cleaning the valves

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f84/air-s...ves-25750.html

And it looks like the coil can just be replaced if needed:

Quote:
Looking at things it looks like it can be replaced. If you have the two wire connector all you need is the RAP90568 and it will cost you $72.58 each plus freight, if you have one wire going to the valve you will need an addaptor and it will be an RAP91915 and it will cost you $12.22 each plus freight and we could ship these parts in about three days after they are ordered.



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Old 09-02-2017, 02:38 PM   #12
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I had loosened the air fitting on the front Air Dump Valve but no air released (both dash air gauges were at around 25 psi), I tightened that back. I went ahead and disconnected packard connector and plugged it back in a few times. I sprayed WD40 into the valve's exhaust (which is on the bottom pointing to the ground) several times.

I opened the driver's side window and went in and turned the ignition key to the left, turned on the HWH control panel and pressed the dump button, I could clearly hear the clicks, no air sound.

Had my wife come inside and press the dump button while I was outside listening under the coach. The click was loud and clear. I did the same for the rear as she pressed the button with the same outcome.

I decided to start the Coach and let the air build up to normal, just above 110psi on the two gauges. I measured the height of the wheel well at ride height (and I had done that before starting that morning). Let the Cummins idle for several minutes before shutting down.

I had a 2x6 next to each wheel on just one side of the coach to measure from:
Rear is approx 33 1/2" with air exhausted, 36 1/4" with air at around 110PSI.
Front is approx 30" with air exhausted, 33" with air at around 110PSI.

Rear/Front raises about 3". Does that sound about right?

Turned on the HWH system and had my wife press the dump button has I put my head near the ground in the front (and rear). Clearly, air exhausted from the front and rear.

It appears my dash Front Air Gauge is wacky. After going down (on Air Dump) a little bit, it shutters (moves left/right quickly for a little bit) then appears to not move while dumping. The dash Rear Air Gauge goes down as air is dumped. Less air sound is heard in the 70's PSI and less and less until no sound around 55PSI on the rear gauge. That takes probably 1 min if I remember correctly, definitely not 2 mins. No issue when air is increasing in the front air system, the front air gauge goes up.

How fast is a normal air dump?

Not sure if I need to go through the steps to clean the valves or not. Member Darryl did post some great information and pictures about cleaning these valves, I'm sure it will be useful in the future for myself and others.

If I let the air systems build up to just above 110PSI and not use the Air Dump button, it will take 24 hours for the air to get down to around 35PSI but both gauges go down as I posted above. 7-10 days later the gauges show around 25PSI). Probably my Ride Height Valves need replacing but I don't think I will put priority on that at this time.

I'm going to start another thread with appropriate subject in regards to the front dash air gauge being wonky.


.
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Old 09-02-2017, 02:52 PM   #13
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Can I just say that mud daubers can actually plug the outlet side of one of these valves solid enough to prevent air escaping when the solenoid is engaged?
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Old 09-03-2017, 09:38 AM   #14
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ahicks, yes you can. i have found that situation many times, and if the magnetic coil hasnt failed, the fix is just to clean the hole out.
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