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Old 12-02-2016, 08:10 PM   #1
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Question Am I figuring this up right? Weight limits and TOADs

We just bought a 2017 Newmar Baystar 3113. Love the coach! It looks like the GVWR is 22,000 lbs and the GCWR is 26,000 lbs. The App. UVW is 17,834 lbs and the App. NCC is 4,166 lbs. I am not sure what either of those are though.

I went and weighed the coach today, no passengers, 1/2 tank of fuel, full of propane and most of our supplies in the coach (other than clothes and some food). Here are my figures:

Weight - 19,350 lbs (did not get a 4 corner weight)

Fuel (1/2 tank) - 252 lbs
75 gallon fresh water - 625 lbs (if I decide to travel with a full tank for boondocking)
Jeep Wrangler TOAD - 4850 lbs (weighed this last week, full of fuel)
4 people (2 adults, 1 teen, 1 toddler) - Approx. 550 lbs
Clothes - 200 lbs estimate

TOTAL = 25,827 lbs

Is it me or is that cutting it really close to the GCWR? I know I could travel will much less Fresh Water and not have a full tank in the Wrangler, which would cut down on the travel weight alot so this is probably a max and overkill.

Thoughts?
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Old 12-02-2016, 08:49 PM   #2
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My GCW is about the same as yours, except I start with a full tank of gas and propane (about 24 gal). I only travel with about a 1/3 full water tank. My people weight is about 2/3rd of yours. I'm loaded for about 5 to 6 months travel for hot and cold weather. I also have a Workhorse chassis with an Allison transmission.

It doesn't appear you added weight for the tow bar and braking system. You should get it reweighed after you have the other variables in place. Make sure you get front and rear axle weights. You don't want to be over weight on the axles. Jeep Wranglers are heavy beasts, that's why they are marginal toads for the 22K chassis and a 5K hitch.
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Old 12-02-2016, 08:55 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Rockwood27 View Post
My GCW is about the same as yours, except I start with a full tank of gas and propane (about 24 gal). I only travel with about a 1/3 full water tank. My people weight is about 2/3rd of yours. I'm loaded for about 5 to 6 months travel for hot and cold weather. I also have a Workhorse chassis with an Allison transmission.

It doesn't appear you added weight for the tow bar and braking system. You should get it reweighed after you have the other variables in place. Make sure you get front and rear axle weights. You don't want to be over weight on the axles. Jeep Wranglers are heavy beasts, that's why they are marginal toads for the 22K chassis and a 5K hitch.
I did weigh front and rear axles, I probably should have posted that.

Front - 6,910 lbs
Rear - 12,440 lbs

But that was with only a half tank of fuel, which I would assume would add about 252lbs to the rear axle. The front axle is weighted for 8,000 lbs and the rear is 14,000 lbs (If I remember right) so I am pretty sure I am good on those, even with a fuel tank of fresh water.

The tow bar only weighs 30 lbs or so and it was on the coach when I weighted it. And I am using the Ready Brute Elite so the braking system is just a cable.
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Old 12-02-2016, 08:58 PM   #4
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You've done the numbers correctly, but one place you're off a bit is that you haven't allowed for any liquid to be in either the gray or black tanks. Ideally, you can dump both before leaving a CG but what if you have been boondocking? Furthermore, I hate to dump my black tank unless it is fairly full, so I often travel with it ~1/4 to 1/2 full.

As long as your comfortably under the GVWR, I think you can afford to be close on the GCWR. We purposely chose a toad in the ~3,400 pound class to reduce our load compared to the weight of your Wrangler.
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Old 12-02-2016, 09:05 PM   #5
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You've done the numbers correctly, but one place you're off a bit is that you haven't allowed for any liquid to be in either the gray or black tanks. Ideally, you can dump both before leaving a CG but what if you have been boondocking? Furthermore, I hate to dump my black tank unless it is fairly full, so I often travel with it ~1/4 to 1/2 full.

As long as your comfortably under the GVWR, I think you can afford to be close on the GCWR. We purposely chose a toad in the ~3,400 pound class to reduce our load compared to the weight of your Wrangler.
Yea, unfortunately I didn't think about the Wrangler being one of the heavier toads for the 5000# hitches. Mine is probably heavier than most too because it has 35" tires and wheels and are really heavy.

One of the reasons I didn't allow for Black or Gray tanks was because I was allowing for a full tank of fresh water. So technically, the only extra added weight would be for the black tank because all the gray tank (and some black) would be from the fresh water tank.

But truthfully, 90% of our camping is in campgrounds so I will only travel with about 1/3 or less of fresh water (just enough to use for traveling).
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Old 12-02-2016, 09:11 PM   #6
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I can't find any errors in your accounting here. Your might consider, as you pointed out, not fully fueling the Jeep before you start longer trips and filling it up at your last RV fueling stop. I try not to carry full water tanks if I can fill near the camp spot, or if I'm staying at an RV park.

You may be forgetting the weight of your other equipment, things like camp chairs, tow bars and braking systems, BBQ. If all of that was included in the initial RV weight, you have that covered.

My overall conclusion here is that you are running close to the limit, and need to watch the weight where you can. Keep up on tire pressure checks and other maintenance items to make sure that you don't have an avoidable problem on the road.

Good for you to have walked through this and considered the limits; I don't think that enough of us do until a tire, wheel bearing, or other premature wear issue arises. Exceeding these limits can have handling any braking effects that are much more immediately dangerous.

Keep thinking like this and you and your family will have many seasons of enjoyment out of your RV.
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Old 12-03-2016, 08:02 AM   #7
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I'd make a couple points:

- Get a four corner weigh on your coach, it can dramatically effect your required PSI. You may find left to right weights different by 500 lbs or more. You would air up your tires on each axle to be the same, but to carry the maximum weight on either of the sides. I've done this a number of times on CAT scales, you can go thru once the normal way (but use the rear two weight pads), then just go around and pull back in with one side off the scale on the right or left. It's called a re-weigh, and is typically like an extra 3 bucks. Thus you'll have total each axle, and a 'right side' each axle. You can then calculate the left side. [You use the rear two weigh pads, because there typically is a frame overhead on the front pad, and you can't be off scale when you go thru that area. ] Alternatively I've done a right side weighing, and left side weighing, adding them together to get the total.

- You may find that filling your tanks, actually changes the weight more than you think. What happens is the center of gravity will shift slightly, and if you hang 300 lbs on your rear bumper, you may add 350 lbs to the rear axle weight, taking 500 lbs off the front.

- I always weigh a worst case, as I drive with a full tank on fill up, and if I'm going somewhere with limited water I'll fill the water tank. So for the weighing I fill the fuel tank, and fill the water tank (also using your logic of empty black/grey). Don't forget a loaded refrigerator and clothes/firewood/supplies/tools. Your tire PSI should have an added safety margin, I add 5 psi after all is calculated.
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Old 12-03-2016, 02:38 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Dean n Mike View Post
I can't find any errors in your accounting here. Your might consider, as you pointed out, not fully fueling the Jeep before you start longer trips and filling it up at your last RV fueling stop. I try not to carry full water tanks if I can fill near the camp spot, or if I'm staying at an RV park.

You may be forgetting the weight of your other equipment, things like camp chairs, tow bars and braking systems, BBQ. If all of that was included in the initial RV weight, you have that covered.

My overall conclusion here is that you are running close to the limit, and need to watch the weight where you can. Keep up on tire pressure checks and other maintenance items to make sure that you don't have an avoidable problem on the road.

Good for you to have walked through this and considered the limits; I don't think that enough of us do until a tire, wheel bearing, or other premature wear issue arises. Exceeding these limits can have handling any braking effects that are much more immediately dangerous.

Keep thinking like this and you and your family will have many seasons of enjoyment out of your RV.
Thanks for the reply, I am about to ask about tires pressures because I am a bit confused about it. I doubt I will ever travel with a full tank of FW so that will save at least 300 lbs, plus I can not fill the Jeep like you said and that saves some too. We are fairly close but I don't think we are in big danger of being overweight.
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Old 12-03-2016, 02:39 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Kiawah View Post
I'd make a couple points:

- Get a four corner weigh on your coach, it can dramatically effect your required PSI. You may find left to right weights different by 500 lbs or more. You would air up your tires on each axle to be the same, but to carry the maximum weight on either of the sides. I've done this a number of times on CAT scales, you can go thru once the normal way (but use the rear two weight pads), then just go around and pull back in with one side off the scale on the right or left. It's called a re-weigh, and is typically like an extra 3 bucks. Thus you'll have total each axle, and a 'right side' each axle. You can then calculate the left side. [You use the rear two weigh pads, because there typically is a frame overhead on the front pad, and you can't be off scale when you go thru that area. ] Alternatively I've done a right side weighing, and left side weighing, adding them together to get the total.

- You may find that filling your tanks, actually changes the weight more than you think. What happens is the center of gravity will shift slightly, and if you hang 300 lbs on your rear bumper, you may add 350 lbs to the rear axle weight, taking 500 lbs off the front.

- I always weigh a worst case, as I drive with a full tank on fill up, and if I'm going somewhere with limited water I'll fill the water tank. So for the weighing I fill the fuel tank, and fill the water tank (also using your logic of empty black/grey). Don't forget a loaded refrigerator and clothes/firewood/supplies/tools. Your tire PSI should have an added safety margin, I add 5 psi after all is calculated.
I never thought about how filling the FW tank and fuel tank will possibly move the weight towards the back more and take some off the front, good point!

I will fill both and try to get another measurement in the near future just to be safe.
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Old 12-03-2016, 02:44 PM   #10
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I am a little confused on what my tire pressures should be. Here is the sidewall on the Michelin's that are on the MH.



When I weighed it, I did do a rear weight and then a total weight so I could at least get a front and rear weight. Here was the breakdown (but remember the FW was pretty much empty and the fuel tank was 1/2 full.

FRONT - 6,910 lbs
REAR - 12,440 lbs

TOTAL - 19,350 lbs

So based on those numbers and looking at my sidewalls, what pressure should I be running? I am running 100 lb in both backs and front right now.

I should have measure the tire pressure when I picked it up because when I checked it today (which is after driving home about 200 miles), they were at 80 psi pretty much all the way around. That was probably low based on my weight and towing the Jeep.
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Old 12-03-2016, 02:45 PM   #11
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I wouldn't think the toad would be part of gross weight , It is rolling weight not load weight
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Old 12-03-2016, 02:49 PM   #12
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I wouldn't think the toad would be part of gross weight , It is rolling weight not load weight
I've read that the TOAD is a part of the GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Ratio) not the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Ratio).

The GCWR is 26,000# for my MH and the GVWR is 22,000#.
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Old 12-03-2016, 04:44 PM   #13
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"I never thought about how filling the FW tank and fuel tank will possibly move the weight towards the back more and take some off the front, good point"

I was going to bring this up and here is another side to consider. My coach has fuel & water both behind the rear axle, add the blue ox hitch and it's all around 1200 lbs. The added leverage rear axle weight may be around 1400 lbs., and take 500 lbs. off the front axle. If you take a weight measurement at this point and set your tire pressures accordingly, remember as you travel and use the fuel and water, that 500 lbs. of leverage weight will be reapplied the the front axle. This is one of many reasons that many say to always add 5 psi to the pressure listed on the tire chart.
Go to Michelin website to get a tire pressure chart for your tires. Your weights are similar to mine and around 85 lbs. sounds about right. Your tire sidewall is telling you that the minimum amount of pressure needed is 110lbs. to carry 4675 lbs. of weight on that tire. You will be running about 3500 lbs. of weight on each tire.
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Old 12-03-2016, 05:07 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by ghoticov View Post
I am a little confused on what my tire pressures should be. Here is the sidewall on the Michelin's that are on the MH.



When I weighed it, I did do a rear weight and then a total weight so I could at least get a front and rear weight. Here was the breakdown (but remember the FW was pretty much empty and the fuel tank was 1/2 full.

FRONT - 6,910 lbs
REAR - 12,440 lbs

TOTAL - 19,350 lbs

So based on those numbers and looking at my sidewalls, what pressure should I be running? I am running 100 lb in both backs and front right now..
Never, never, never try to guess your pressure from the sidewall label. Every tire manufacturer has a table of weights vs pressures for their tires. You have Michelin tires so the table is here: http://www.michelinrvtires.com/asset...flation-rv.pdf
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