Another Rodent Question

[Unplanned Tourist]

Originally Posted by twinboat

Maybe this stuffAttachment 382495

I have one of those kits. It works well for skunks.

[waggintails]

Originally Posted by BPD138

I'm at a total loss of what to do about rodent prevention. Our motorhome is stored on the mowed grass on the side of the house with the tires up on blocks. I don't have power running to it.

I don't have any rodents there now but I want to prevent them from entering. I have been reading a lot about keeping rodents out of the motorhome and understand the "usual" methods of protection. The issue I'm having is; all the reviews I read have positive and negative results. The "popular" products with lots of good reviews also have terrible reviews. I'm having a real hard time of what to do. Can anyone give me some real world reviews, opinions or suggestions on how they prevent rodent's from entering the motorhome?

You can try all of the deterrents you can think of however, the only thing that really works is to not have a food source. I mean NONE. You can try to plug all the entrances, but it is impossible to find them all. Good luck. Example: I have an enclosed garage which is large enough for my coach. I might add that we live in the country and the garage is adjacent to my pasture. We don't normally travel during the winter, so it is usually winterized and dormant from November until March. The garage is sealed around the bottom except the bottom of 2 roll up doors. When I winterize it, I remove all of the food sources in my coach and thoroughly clean storage places. However, last year I left my dog food stored in the coach in one of those plastic ice cream gallon containers with an airtight lid. A few weeks later I was in the coach just doing a walkthrough. I noticed that the dog food container looked odd. After taking a closer look, mice had chewed a hole in the edge of the lid, and I had mouse droppings in that storage area but nowhere else. I cleaned it up and dumped the dog food in the garbage. Viola, no more rodents or evidence of mice for the rest of the time the coach was in the garage.

[mjschocken]

Make sure you clean up any potential food sources in the area including bird seed that has fallen from bird feeders. You can also consider rodent repellents. Please, however, do not use anticoagulant rodenticides in bait stations. It will kill the mice but owls, other raptors and non-target mammalian wildlife will eat the dying or dead mice and be poisoned and die from what's called secondary poisoning. This is a national crisis for our wildlife.

[maf92]

Good mouse traps, and check them often. That is the best thing that we found. The best traps that we found are the victor brand where the bait goes into the round metal piece. Not the one that looks like it has a piece of cheese.

Soap, peppermint oil, and that other stuff doesn't work for us. Then even like to eat Irish Springs soap.

[astrnmrtom]

I've seen information shared from a pest control person mentioned once, mixed in with all the personal testimony and home remedies.

Make this information shared from pest control person #2. (retired)

First. To the OP: I'm not sure what this means: "I have been reading a lot about keeping rodents out of the motorhome and understand the "usual" methods of protection."

In these forums the "usual methods" quite often mean home remedies - things most often mentioned. To me, as someone who was licensed and trained in pest control, it means something completely different, and that is the rodent control triad:

1. Exclusion.
2. Baiting. (outside)
3. Trapping/monitoring. (inside)

There's a number of things mentioned here that are based on erroneous or incomplete information. With 6 pages of posts, I won't be able to touch on all of them but I'll pick a few. I'm not questioning anyone's sincerity. Everyone is trying to help. A lot of information is repeated over and over. I've even seen articles posted on popular RV blogs that contain bad information. Not because the writer is insincere, but because they have no real expertise in the field and gather their information from what they've often heard or read online. Actual data from studies by professionals don't pop up on Google searches. It's easy to repeat bad info.

The first is the quote form the other pest control person - removing food. While sound advice, it is incomplete, because rodents end up in your RV for more than a meal. Shelter and safety from predators is another one, and so is finding a nice place to raise a family. The other pest control guy is correct, mice have a great sense of smell, and because of this, simply removing food from your RV isn't enough, although it IS good advice. If you've spent any time cooking in your RV, it will smell like food, even after you've emptied the shelves and cleaned up inside. That's why #1 of the triad is the most important. Not only are you making a physical barrier by plugging holes, any opening breathes and carries smells and air movement which is a signal alerting the rodent that further investigation is need. Sealing up a hole blocks that air movement. It's like closing and locking your doors before leaving on vacation. It doesn't matter what you do to the interior of your house to deter a burglar, if you leave your windows and doors wide open while you are gone, you are inviting trouble.

Each year we had to attend recert classes to keep our licenses valid. EVERY year of the 16 years I held my license, without exception, we had speakers talk about rodent control. Rodents are a HUGE problem world wide. NOT ONE expert recommended any of the home remedies suggested here, and they aren't part of effective rodent control in the industry. Ask yourself why.

I want to address one suggestion, and that's spraying your wiring with wasp spray. One, it's a federal violation to use it in a manner not approved on the label, and two, a lot of wasp sprays use kerosene or a similar petroleum distillate as a carrier. While the Feds aren't going to kick down your door and arrest you for doing so, it's NOT a good thing to spray around your engine and wiring. If you get it on a engine or an exhaust and it gets hot you are vaporizing a pesticide, plus kerosene is flammable and a solvent. That's why all that fine print is on those labels. To keep the person using it, and others safe, and why that federal law is there against using it in a manner not listed on the label. I also want to correct the statement that rodents chew wiring for flavor. It's more basic than that. Wires resemble roots and twigs they encounter in the wild and chew on instinctually to maintain their teeth. They chew wiring because they are wired to chew things - pun intended. It's that simple.

Three; the often used statement - X works because mice don't like the... smell, taste, feel, light, sound. That's using first world human logic on a animal that is trying to survive long enough to reproduce. Everyone on this forum would avoid lifting the lid on the dumpster, rifling around in old trash and chomping down on moldy old food for lunch, but put that same person in a survival situation, where's it's deal with something unpleasant or die, and the attitudes change, especially if you are competing with other starving people for that moldy piece of sandwich. Ever hear of stories where a person drank their own urine to survive? Bet they didn't "like" doing it. I delt with rodents in well lit areas, in places with loud cycling equipment, and strong chemical smells. They like making runs in fiberglass insulation. If you've ever worked with the stuff it gets in your skin and itches like crazy. Imagine pushing through it face first to make a path. Mice and Rats do it, and use those runs regularly.

Secondary - or non target poisoning is much less likely than you think especially if you use bait stations, even home made ones will work. Secondary and non target poison studies vary, and depend more on how and where a particular poison is used. A farmer throwing out 500lbs of poison seed to kill Starlings poses a much higher threat to a non target species, than an RVer using a couple bait stations.

Every pest situation is different, one main variable is defined in the industry as "Pest pressure." It's the local population vs the local resources. High population competing for resources = high pest pressure. A few rodents in the land of plenty = low pest pressure. Comparing Joe's results using X from Frank's lack of results using Y is not using standardized data. Frank and Joe live in different environments, among different populations levels, and have different rigs. Maybe Joe's rig was well sealed from the factory, and Frank's rig has holes everywhere. Pest control industry uses techniques that have been studied in a wide variety of environments and situations, and have used controls. Remember, correlation does not equal causation. Also keep in mind that if something worked, it would be SOP in the industry.

So, use whatever home remedy tickles you, but first, seal up your rig and monitor for activity. Ideally, Use the rodent control triad. There's a reason it's SOP in the industry.

Hope this helps.

[W4KMA]

Originally Posted by Tbroeck

We have used Irish Spring original scent soap for 5 years. We place 10 new bars each year and have not had a problem since we did this. We live 3 miles in the country along a creek.

Really?

[TandW]

Originally Posted by W4KMA

Really?
Attachment 382696

Cleans up the vermin. Inside and out!!!

[mjschocken]

Originally Posted by shootist

The bait is not poison. It is blood thinner just like they give to humans. The liver gives out after several feedings. They usually make it into their hiding places to die, so the bird, ferrets etc.. arguments don't carry much weight.

This comment is not at all true. With regard to anticoagulant rodenticides, whether First Generation (warfarin-type) or Second Generation, it takes a few days for the rat to die. In the meantime, they're weakened and easy pickings for owls, other raptors and predator mammals like racoons, coyotes, wolves, mountain lions and other non-targets. Once eaten, the non-target will either get sick with internal hemorrhaging or die. It is a huge problem right now across the country. The issue is called "secondary poisoning" of wildlife. The EPA is currently reviewing the anticoagulant rodenticides and is expected to add additional restrictions to all the labels. However, the mitigations don't go far enough and our wildlife are still in danger. DO NOT USE ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES! There are safer alternatives that don't cause secondary poisoning.

[mjschocken]

Originally Posted by astrnmrtom

I've seen information shared from a pest control person mentioned once, mixed in with all the personal testimony and home remedies.

Make this information shared from pest control person #2. (retired)

First. To the OP: I'm not sure what this means: "I have been reading a lot about keeping rodents out of the motorhome and understand the "usual" methods of protection."

In these forums the "usual methods" quite often mean home remedies - things most often mentioned. To me, as someone who was licensed and trained in pest control, it means something completely different, and that is the rodent control triad:

1. Exclusion.
2. Baiting. (outside)
3. Trapping/monitoring. (inside)

There's a number of things mentioned here that are based on erroneous or incomplete information. With 6 pages of posts, I won't be able to touch on all of them but I'll pick a few. I'm not questioning anyone's sincerity. Everyone is trying to help. A lot of information is repeated over and over. I've even seen articles posted on popular RV blogs that contain bad information. Not because the writer is insincere, but because they have no real expertise in the field and gather their information from what they've often heard or read online. Actual data from studies by professionals don't pop up on Google searches. It's easy to repeat bad info.

The first is the quote form the other pest control person - removing food. While sound advice, it is incomplete, because rodents end up in your RV for more than a meal. Shelter and safety from predators is another one, and so is finding a nice place to raise a family. The other pest control guy is correct, mice have a great sense of smell, and because of this, simply removing food from your RV isn't enough, although it IS good advice. If you've spent any time cooking in your RV, it will smell like food, even after you've emptied the shelves and cleaned up inside. That's why #1 of the triad is the most important. Not only are you making a physical barrier by plugging holes, any opening breathes and carries smells and air movement which is a signal alerting the rodent that further investigation is need. Sealing up a hole blocks that air movement. It's like closing and locking your doors before leaving on vacation. It doesn't matter what you do to the interior of your house to deter a burglar, if you leave your windows and doors wide open while you are gone, you are inviting trouble.

Each year we had to attend recert classes to keep our licenses valid. EVERY year of the 16 years I held my license, without exception, we had speakers talk about rodent control. Rodents are a HUGE problem world wide. NOT ONE expert recommended any of the home remedies suggested here, and they aren't part of effective rodent control in the industry. Ask yourself why.

I want to address one suggestion, and that's spraying your wiring with wasp spray. One, it's a federal violation to use it in a manner not approved on the label, and two, a lot of wasp sprays use kerosene or a similar petroleum distillate as a carrier. While the Feds aren't going to kick down your door and arrest you for doing so, it's NOT a good thing to spray around your engine and wiring. If you get it on a engine or an exhaust and it gets hot you are vaporizing a pesticide, plus kerosene is flammable and a solvent. That's why all that fine print is on those labels. To keep the person using it, and others safe, and why that federal law is there against using it in a manner not listed on the label. I also want to correct the statement that rodents chew wiring for flavor. It's more basic than that. Wires resemble roots and twigs they encounter in the wild and chew on instinctually to maintain their teeth. They chew wiring because they are wired to chew things - pun intended. It's that simple.

Three; the often used statement - X works because mice don't like the... smell, taste, feel, light, sound. That's using first world human logic on a animal that is trying to survive long enough to reproduce. Everyone on this forum would avoid lifting the lid on the dumpster, rifling around in old trash and chomping down on moldy old food for lunch, but put that same person in a survival situation, where's it's deal with something unpleasant or die, and the attitudes change, especially if you are competing with other starving people for that moldy piece of sandwich. Ever hear of stories where a person drank their own urine to survive? Bet they didn't "like" doing it. I delt with rodents in well lit areas, in places with loud cycling equipment, and strong chemical smells. They like making runs in fiberglass insulation. If you've ever worked with the stuff it gets in your skin and itches like crazy. Imagine pushing through it face first to make a path. Mice and Rats do it, and use those runs regularly.

Secondary - or non target poisoning is much less likely than you think especially if you use bait stations, even home made ones will work. Secondary and non target poison studies vary, and depend more on how and where a particular poison is used. A farmer throwing out 500lbs of poison seed to kill Starlings poses a much higher threat to a non target species, than an RVer using a couple bait stations.

Every pest situation is different, one main variable is defined in the industry as "Pest pressure." It's the local population vs the local resources. High population competing for resources = high pest pressure. A few rodents in the land of plenty = low pest pressure. Comparing Joe's results using X from Frank's lack of results using Y is not using standardized data. Frank and Joe live in different environments, among different populations levels, and have different rigs. Maybe Joe's rig was well sealed from the factory, and Frank's rig has holes everywhere. Pest control industry uses techniques that have been studied in a wide variety of environments and situations, and have used controls. Remember, correlation does not equal causation. Also keep in mind that if something worked, it would be SOP in the industry.

So, use whatever home remedy tickles you, but first, seal up your rig and monitor for activity. Ideally, Use the rodent control triad. There's a reason it's SOP in the industry.

Hope this helps.

I agree with much of what was written here. However, I think the impact of secondary poisoning from a particular (and popular) class of rodenticide (namely, anticoagulants) is underestimated. The rats go into bait stations containing these products, feed and then come out. While the risk of direct exposure to the bait is minimized because of the locked and tamper-proof bait station, the risk for secondary poisoning, i.e., a bird or mammal killing the poisoned rodent and eating it, is high. For example, in Safety Harbor, Florida this past spring, a whole family of great horned owls were killed by eating anticoagulant-poisoned rats. This was confirmed by observing the dead owls by physical examination, dissecting the owls (called a necropsy, the animal version of a human autopsy) and then doing a chemical analysis to detect residues of the anticoagulants in the liver and other organs and tissues. Secondary poisoning from anticoagulant rodenticides has also impacted other raptors in Florida and across the country. Incidents are way underreported because it's expensive to conduct these analyses to confirm cause of death by anticoagulant rodenticides. Wildlife rescue and rehabber groups just don't have the funds and time for sending the dead animals out to confirm cause of death.

I belong to a group that is currently petitioning EPA to either cancel the registrations of these anticoagulant rodenticides or severely restrict them. There are safer alternatives for our wildlife which can still adequately control rodent problems. Namely, better sanitation, excluding entry to homes and businesses, snap traps, zap traps and A24 units, repellents and, as a last resort, non-anticoagulant rodenticides.

[Finally_Able]

Originally Posted by mjschocken

I agree with much of what was written here. However, I think the impact of secondary poisoning from a particular (and popular) class of rodenticide (namely, anticoagulants) is underestimated. The rats go into bait stations containing these products, feed and then come out. While the risk of direct exposure to the bait is minimized because of the locked and tamper-proof bait station, the risk for secondary poisoning, i.e., a bird or mammal killing the poisoned rodent and eating it, is high. For example, in Safety Harbor, Florida this past spring, a whole family of great horned owls were killed by eating anticoagulant-poisoned rats. This was confirmed by observing the dead owls by physical examination, dissecting the owls (called a necropsy, the animal version of a human autopsy) and then doing a chemical analysis to detect residues of the anticoagulants in the liver and other organs and tissues. Secondary poisoning from anticoagulant rodenticides has also impacted other raptors in Florida and across the country. Incidents are way underreported because it's expensive to conduct these analyses to confirm cause of death by anticoagulant rodenticides. Wildlife rescue and rehabber groups just don't have the funds and time for sending the dead animals out to confirm cause of death.

I belong to a group that is currently petitioning EPA to either cancel the registrations of these anticoagulant rodenticides or severely restrict them. There are safer alternatives for our wildlife which can still adequately control rodent problems. Namely, better sanitation, excluding entry to homes and businesses, snap traps, zap traps and A24 units, repellents and, as a last resort, non-anticoagulant rodenticides.

I completely agree. And while I don't object in the least to using snap traps to kill mice, II draw the line at sticky traps or drowning them in a homemade bucket trap -- I find these solutions inhumane. I don't mind killing rodents that try to share our living and work spaces, but I don't want them to suffer in the process.

[W&L Dan]

Pure mint oil put it on cotton balls ,put cotton balls in a washed out tuna can or a metal JAR LID etc. redo when mint smell starts to go away. Been working for us for years & makes the coach smell good to us but not to mice

[baraff]

As others have said, remove the food sources. Check your toaster for crumbs and clean it before storage. I had to pitch a toaster because mice got into it (in an overhead cabinet!) and not only ate all the crumbs in the tray but also the insulation on the cord.
We have a pest control service for the "sticks and bricks" and I mentioned to the guy we had a mouse problem in the garage. What they do is use cardboard bait boxes with two Victor UNBAITED traps inside. The boxes have cutouts at each end at the corner. You place the two traps by the opening, perpendicular so they have to run across it when entering. Mice are naturally curious and bait is not needed. The problem with peanut butter is it gets moldy and the mice won't go near it.
I caught 6 mice in two days using this method. I haven't seen any since.

[glwinger]

Originally Posted by baraff

As others have said, remove the food sources. Check your toaster for crumbs and clean it before storage. I had to pitch a toaster because mice got into it (in an overhead cabinet!) and not only ate all the crumbs in the tray but also the insulation on the cord.
We have a pest control service for the "sticks and bricks" and I mentioned to the guy we had a mouse problem in the garage. What they do is use cardboard bait boxes with two Victor UNBAITED traps inside. The boxes have cutouts at each end at the corner. You place the two traps by the opening, perpendicular so they have to run across it when entering. Mice are naturally curious and bait is not needed. The problem with peanut butter is it gets moldy and the mice won't go near it.
I caught 6 mice in two days using this method. I haven't seen any since.

A good bait to use is a piece of plain old chocolate candy bar. Tie it onto the trap lever. The mice can't lick the lever clean and have to pull the bait. It doesn't get moldy like PB.

[trispeed]

Originally Posted by BPD138

I'm at a total loss of what to do about rodent prevention. Our motorhome is stored on the mowed grass on the side of the house with the tires up on blocks. I don't have power running to it.

I don't have any rodents there now but I want to prevent them from entering. I have been reading a lot about keeping rodents out of the motorhome and understand the "usual" methods of protection. The issue I'm having is; all the reviews I read have positive and negative results. The "popular" products with lots of good reviews also have terrible reviews. I'm having a real hard time of what to do. Can anyone give me some real world reviews, opinions or suggestions on how they prevent rodent's from entering the motorhome?

may be helpful; after a couple instances of chewed wires in the engine bay of my cars, I started parking over a string of led rope lighting, been 6 years, no issues in 2 cars and a class a rv. I believe this keeps nocturnal creatures away as they would not go toward bright light at night.