Anyone have Liquid Springs on their rig?

[Jabber Jaw]

Originally Posted by Onyrlef

Did they remove the leaf springs? I read some commentary on another forum about the Kelterman Air ride system for the f53 chassis that any system relying on the leaf springs to do the heavy work is only putting lipstick on a pig.

YES! Leaf springs front & rear removed!

The Liquid Spring system is comparable to the "4 link" suspension used on race cars. And the "damping" is handled by a computer controlled shock, with a large silicone based fluid reservoir.

"LS" is an awesome system!

Allan

[Smitty77]

I realize this is an older thread. But, after another year has gone by, wanted to see if some of the original posters would provide and update.

And an observation from 'Three RV's of Ownership' - as well as driven many, many other RV's as I helped others either buy, and or relocate a coach. I wanted to share one observation when comparing 'Four corner LS' to a 'Stock DP with Air'.

Stock DP's with air, as mentioned in this thread (And other posts about LS.) - are a 'Set' amount of 'Air Chassis'. Set amount? Well, DP's have both varying quantity of air bags, as well as volume of air in those systems. They also usually have 'conventional' shocks. These Air DP's will have different levels of both 'handling/poise', as well as 'comfort'. Tyically higher up the food chain you go - the better both handling/poise and comfort are.

Stay on DP's with Air. Very few come OEM with 'Active Air'. And HWH, which were doing Active Air Modifications for several years. Had to stop doing so, during Covid. (I believe they will still do so for a few Manufacturer's as an Option during purchase(?). But very low volume. (And, I also believe a few other companies provide Active Air assistance options, again to a low volume of coaches being sold.

Contrast that to LS's Four Corner 'Active' installs...And you can see why many feel the $20K is a bargain in the overall costs of RV'ing, to reach both improved 'Handling' (To me, a safety edge!), and also improvement in 'Comfort'.

Lots of factors. And a $500-$1M+ DP, even with out some form of Active Air - will typically yield a comfortable and secure ride. (Probably much quiter too, vs front engine Gas Class A's 'Engine Sound'. Toss in better insualtion, and floor dampening, and that also adds to the reason Mid to High End DP's, still have an 'overall edge' of owner's satrisfaction.

THAT BEING SAID. For way below the price of a Mid Level DP... A higher end Gas Class A, with LS's Four Corner Active Handling, IMO - really does provide quite a bit of value, and safety, to Class A Gas Ownership.

We went from a 98 T28 Bounder, with a 99 F53 first year 2 valve V10 18K Chassis (With all that Super Steer, and Koni, and other's suppliers could provide from a 'Handling and Comfort' perspective.), to an 04 Country Coach 04 Allure, with Road King Shocks, Source Engineering Comfort Control (Check) Air Valves. And then to an 07 Magna 45' with Road Kings, Source Engineering Comfort Control Valves. And when we both the Magna, we had budgeted to add HWH Active Air, but Covid knocked that out of our upgrade path.

Each owner prioritizes what is important to them. After having 3 close calls in our early years, followed by a few more opportunities to 'pucker up' in our later coaches... We always prioritized the combination of good handling, reserve power, and solid braking capability - in the purchase path and upgrades of suspension to our coaches.

To me. LS's Four Corner Active System, provides these upgrade paths that will in many ways surpass many of the entry to Mid, even high end, DP's - that DO NOT have Active Air. And at a fraction of the overall costs of ownership. (And yes. Mid to Higher end DP's, bring much more to the overall RV'ing experience then Handling and Safety... But, again to us - we give those Handling and Safety - BONUS POINTS, as well - they can save a life.

Rambling's off! (My nature!)...

Best to all,
Smitty

(Currently on a 'pause' from RV'ing...)

[Jabber Jaw]

Smitty77......

Adding to your comment. "Liquid Spring" just came out with an active leveling system, which will function similar to the "HWH Active Air suspension", and will allow leveling the coach without having to use the levelers.

Saw this installed on a coach at the Newmar International, a couple of weeks ago. A very impressive system!

While driving, it will compensate for the "crown" on the road, and the banking in curves too.

This is going to be another improvement to the ride & handling of "LS" to gas coaches!

I'm looking forward to adding it to my Newmar!!

[Smitty77]

Originally Posted by Jabber Jaw

Smitty77......

Adding to your comment. "Liquid Spring" just came out with an active leveling system, which will function similar to the "HWH Active Air suspension", and will allow leveling the coach without having to use the levelers.

Saw this installed on a coach at the Newmar International, a couple of weeks ago. A very impressive system!

While driving, it will compensate for the "crown" on the road, and the banking in curves too.

This is going to be another improvement to the ride & handling of "LS" to gas coaches!

I'm looking forward to adding it to my Newmar!!

Thanks JJ - I'd heard about the leveling option, but not the adjustment for crown. 'Banking in curves' I read as instead of just adjusting (Resetting) the suspension in S Curve driving conditions, to also include/add keeping the coach in a 'level' position while doing so(?). Way cool to have these new features.

I followed either a King Aire or London Aire (Memory Fog) on a winding S curves with most cambered properly for the turn - but a 'few' Off Cambered and really would add to the Outside of the Curve lean (Of both our Allure and also our Magna.) of the coaches! I followed this gent in our CRV Toad, and he ended up pulling into the Pacific Shores Motorcoach Resort where we had a site. After he got set up in his site, I caught him outside and asked if he'd had HWH Active Air installed on his coach? He said 'I don't know. I just checked an expensive Option box when ordering, that a buddy told me I should just shut up and pay for!'. I dropped into the Newmar forum afterwards and searched, and looks to be the Valid(?) Option. I shared all this, because what really impressed me, was how 'Level' the coach remained in the curves. So seeing LS's adding this, is another real plus. (Oh. I'll share that the Gent I followed in, said it was their first drive and Pacific Shores was their first place to 'camp' in the coach. He'd never driven a coach before, and did not understand what a difference the Valid(?) system made to handling - as he had nothing to compare if from. They'd bought the coach from Guaranty in Junction City (Now Bish's.) earlier that week. I had a hard time keeping up with him in the curves in our CRV! And he easily pulled away from me with the X15!!! (And you know, maybe that is a 'downside' to active air and LS's type systems - people drive faster then a heavy/large Class A should be driven?? !).

Thanks again for adding on, and salute to LS's for what they are bringing to the F53!!!

Smitty

[Dodge Guy]

Originally Posted by Smitty77

Thanks JJ - I'd heard about the leveling option, but not the adjustment for crown. 'Banking in curves' I read as instead of just adjusting (Resetting) the suspension in S Curve driving conditions, to also include/add keeping the coach in a 'level' position while doing so(?). Way cool to have these new features.

I followed either a King Aire or London Aire (Memory Fog) on a winding S curves with most cambered properly for the turn - but a 'few' Off Cambered and really would add to the Outside of the Curve lean (Of both our Allure and also our Magna.) of the coaches! I followed this gent in our CRV Toad, and he ended up pulling into the Pacific Shores Motorcoach Resort where we had a site. After he got set up in his site, I caught him outside and asked if he'd had HWH Active Air installed on his coach? He said 'I don't know. I just checked an expensive Option box when ordering, that a buddy told me I should just shut up and pay for!'. I dropped into the Newmar forum afterwards and searched, and looks to be the Valid(?) Option. I shared all this, because what really impressed me, was how 'Level' the coach remained in the curves. So seeing LS's adding this, is another real plus. (Oh. I'll share that the Gent I followed in, said it was their first drive and Pacific Shores was their first place to 'camp' in the coach. He'd never driven a coach before, and did not understand what a difference the Valid(?) system made to handling - as he had nothing to compare if from. They'd bought the coach from Guaranty in Junction City (Now Bish's.) earlier that week. I had a hard time keeping up with him in the curves in our CRV! And he easily pulled away from me with the X15!!! (And you know, maybe that is a 'downside' to active air and LS's type systems - people drive faster then a heavy/large Class A should be driven?? !).

Thanks again for adding on, and salute to LS's for what they are bringing to the F53!!!

Smitty

Just last week, while on a 2 week trip, I watched 2 Gas Class A’s pull in and were leaning a bit and straightened back up as they drove straight. I knew right away they had LS underneath. I watched one setup and after he was done the coach lowered! So I knew for certain that one had it. It seems to be a great system. If buying a new gas class A I would definitely order it or have it installed before taking delivery. Now shelling out that kind of money on my 11 year old F53 would be very difficult without considering putting that money into buying a used DP.

[Jabber Jaw]

Originally Posted by Dodge Guy

Just last week, while on a 2 week trip, I watched 2 Gas Class A’s pull in and were leaning a bit and straightened back up as they drove straight. I knew right away they had LS underneath. I watched one setup and after he was done the coach lowered! So I knew for certain that one had it. It seems to be a great system. If buying a new gas class A I would definitely order it or have it installed before taking delivery. Now shelling out that kind of money on my 11 year old F53 would be very difficult without considering putting that money into buying a used DP.

Add another $150,000 or more for a "DP" purchase, to the $25,000 for "LS" and you might have a mediocre "DP", but not with the suspension system like "LS"!

Only the "high end" DP's would have independent front suspension.

Most folks do not realize that the majority of "DP's" have a SOLID FRONT AXLE, and air bag suspension added, which gives no real advantage to a Coach equipped with the Liquid Spring four corner suspension.

The articulation of the four-link type suspension, especially the FRONT, along with the special fluid based "shocks" gives a better ride, and suspension activity, than a leaf spring/air-bag solid front axle "DP"!

Note: Even Freightliner just announced a new "Variable Ride" suspension as an option, to add ride comfort, etc. Apparently as an answer to "LS" for gas coaches!