Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > Class A Motorhome Discussions
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-18-2020, 03:09 PM   #113
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ & Plover, WI
Posts: 4,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by MingusPirate View Post
I live in Arizona. And we have the mileage data from both the fuel mileage on our rig mileage indicator, and then the divide miles by gallons. We get 12 to 14 mpg with Chevron, Costco, and Shell consistently. We get 6 to 8 mpg with T/A, Flying J, and Pilot. No belief, just hard data. So snotty comments do not change me from believing data from two sources. Maybe you should try to measure your mileage.
I'm sorry, but I just can't swallow that. It's common knowledge that many of the stations get their fuel from the same tank farm. There might be a slight difference in the additives, but it is essentially the same fuel. You're saying that Chevron, Costco and Shell fuel has twice the performance as three of the top fuel suppliers to the trucking industry?? If that were true, either they would be overrun with semi's waiting to fill up or we would see Chevron, Costco and Shell Truck Stops springing up all over the country and a lot of "Out of Business" signs at the major suppliers.

Edit: I guess it's possible that you just brought this up to see what kind of reaction you would get. If so, it worked.
__________________
2013 43 QGP Allegro Bus
2013 Avalanche
CJ7 Rock Crawler
Crasher is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-18-2020, 03:28 PM   #114
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 71
Bad fuel

My son in law drops 3 loads of diesel per day”12 hours”at the same loves,5 days a week.Same location.
ltmoeller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2020, 05:23 PM   #115
Senior Member
 
NHRA225's Avatar


 
American Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,660
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltmoeller View Post
My son in law drops 3 loads of diesel per day”12 hours”at the same loves,5 days a week.Same location.


So wouldn’t you say their tanks are relatively Clean ?
__________________
Chuck
Brownsburg Indiana
1992 American Eagle-8.3C-450hp
NHRA225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2020, 05:27 PM   #116
Senior Member
 
flamebuster's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Retired Fire Service RVer's
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHRA225 View Post
I don’t believe for a minute the any Driver adds Additives to their loads of fuel !
Most all Diesel today is B20 meaning it has 20% Bio Additives.
When the switch was made years ago the only thing I noticed was a more frequent Fuel Filter change - gets a little sluggish if you will - no Big Deal - I change all 3 of my Fuel Filters @ 5 to 8000 miles .
In the last 239000 miles Fueling at Flying J Exclusively I’ve never had Bad Fuel !
The OP had a Coincidence of a Bad Fuel Pump or whatever at the same time He Fueled and Dumped on the Station !
Bottom line here is Change Your Fuel Filters !!!!!!
You are so very wrong. We have a 20,000 gal storage tank on the farm and order our fuel by the tanker load. When we call the different dist. companys we pay an extra .07 per gallon to have the right additive package added to the tanker ( power service is added by Connell Oil for their extreme diesel fuel) depending on price the fuel may come from Tacoma, Anacortez or Spokane and is delivered straight to my farm. The price can only be locked in for a 4 hour period.
Red dye is also added to the fuel when the truck fills as it is declared at that time as off road fuel..
Every company has their own additive pkg. Chevron tech fuel, Unocal extreme diesel for example.. Independants can get straight diesel with no additives if they want too, but it is not recommended.
And they do not add bio fuel in Washington state unless it is required in the Seattle area ( they live in their own world of regulations) That is usually a state mandated requirement for that states fuel stations. Some states require it simply to support the farmer other states require it for environmental reasons.
__________________
Doug and Sue.
07 Diplomat 40 PET
2011 Jeep Liberty pushing.
flamebuster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2020, 10:31 PM   #117
Senior Member
 
mike5511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by KanzKran View Post
Up to and including 5% is not required to be labeled as containing biodiesel. None of the pumps anywhere around here show a biodiesel content label, but when I travel south, I start seeing them. Texas especially, if memory serves, though I've only encountered B20 once so far.

I don't think non-labeled pumps, other than the ULSD label, are actually required to have a full 5%, but AFAIK, there is some bio content in all ULSD fuel these days per federal law, and it's good for lubricity so that's always a good thing and may be the main reason its added.
I've seen stickers that said ".........may contain 5-20% bio-diesel" when traveling.
mike5511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2020, 08:40 AM   #118
Senior Member
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 661
Let me the "Refining Guy" (M.S. Chemical Engineering / Refinery Operations Manager) dispel some of the "myths" in recent comments with facts about biodiesel, renewable diesel and conventional diesel (produced from crude oil). To start, both renewable diesel and biodiesel are produced using fatty acids (triglycerides) that comprise animal fats and vegetable oils.
Triglycerides are three diesel molecules "stuck together" with a glycerin molecule (see attached image -- green dots are carbon molecules, gray dots are hydrogen molecules, red dots are oxygen molecules).

Renewable Diesel is manufactured by processing the triglycerides in a refinery process unit which removes glycerol and carboxyl groups (the glycerin molecule) to produce three "straight chain" diesel molecules which have vey high cetane index rating (70-80) but are also very "waxy". Renewable Diesel, because it's chemical structure is very close to Conventional Diesel can be blended into ULSD in unlimited amounts.

Biodiesel is manufactured is a specially designed, catalytic "esterification" unit where the glycerol group is remove, but the carboxyl group remains, to produce three biodiesel "ester" molecules. Biodiesel "esters" have a high cetane rating (50-60) but are less "waxy" than Renewable Diesel. A unique property of Biodiesel "esters" is they are very good solvents which will attack all non-metallic components (i.e. O-rings, gaskets, plastic fuel filters, etc.) in the fuel system for any diesel engine. Because Biodiesel "esters" are such good solvents is why Cummins and other diesel engine manufacturers limit the maximum Biodiesel content in ULSD to 20% to assure O-rings, gaskets, etc. are not dissolved away. If Biodiesel was not a good solvent, it could be blended into ULSD in any amount.

"At the pump" the ULSD we purchase can contain any amount of Renewable Diesel and the consumer will never know as Renewable Diesel and Conventional Diesel are indistinguishable in a ULSD blend. If the ULSD contains 5% or less Biodiesel, no pump labeling is required under FTC regulations (only the Green ULSD label is required on the pump). If the ULSD contains 6-20% Biodiesel, the FTC requires that every diesel pump have a label stating the Biodiesel content. Here is a link to the FTC diesel pump labeling regulation --> https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/busi...ng-rule#labels

The ULSD we purchase at the pump MUST have a minimum Cetane Index Rating of 40 (most refineries will produce a 41-42 cetane diesel to assure the 40 cetane minimum at the pump is always met). Unlike gasoline that has incentives to produce higher octane products, there is no economic or market incentive to provide a ULSD product with a high cetane index rating. At the pump, ULSD is ULSD is ULSD except for any proprietary additives a marketer may chose to add (such as ExxonMobil does for their Synergy Diesel).

ULSD purchased at Pilot or Loves or Chevron or Buc-ee's is the same quality diesel, minus any proprietary additives, and thus any of those diesels will perform the same in a diesel engine. The proprietary additives are typically detergent and anti-oxidation additives to help assure cleanliness of the engine and fuel system and protect the diesel from degrading (oxidizing) if it sits in a tank too long.

Finally, I'm not aware of any major oil company selling ULSD with Biodiesel content greater than 20% as doing so would put the primary consumer (trucking industry) at great risk of having fuel system component failures in each truck using ULSD containing Biodiesel. There are some government agencies purchasing diesel fuel containing 50-80% Biodiesel to meet agency "green" standards. The fuel systems in those vehicles have been upgraded to have no non-metallic components to be able to use a "B50" or "B80" diesel product.

Hope the forum finds this info useful.


Click image for larger version

Name:	triglyceride.JPG
Views:	29
Size:	32.2 KB
ID:	275571
__________________
Mike & Cindy in Katy, TX
2016 Newmar Ventana LE 4037
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
fagnaml is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2020, 09:56 AM   #119
Senior Member
 
Down South's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 612
I can only remember taking on bad fuel once. It was from a little store way out in the middle of nowhere so I'm sure they didn't sell much diesel. This was years ago before everyone was driving diesel pickups.

From what I've researched in the past. The best places to take on diesel is from places that sell a lot of diesel for obvious reasons.
So that would include any of your truck stops and big stores that sell fuel such as Costco, Kroger, etc.

With the minor stores, I've heard that it's not a good idea to take on fuel if the fuel carrier is dumping a load to the underground tanks. I've "heard" that it was best to wait at least 30 minutes after the carrier finishes dumping to allow sediment that could have been stirred up in the tank by the new load of fuel to resettle.
Down South is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2020, 10:48 AM   #120
Senior Member
 
KanzKran's Avatar


 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,743
Quote:
Originally Posted by fagnaml View Post
Renewable Diesel is manufactured by processing the triglycerides in a refinery process unit which removes glycerol and carboxyl groups (the glycerin molecule) to produce three "straight chain" diesel molecules which have vey high cetane index rating (70-80) but are also very "waxy". Renewable Diesel, because it's chemical structure is very close to Conventional Diesel can be blended into ULSD in unlimited amounts.

Biodiesel is manufactured is a specially designed, catalytic "esterification" unit where the glycerol group is remove, but the carboxyl group remains, to produce three biodiesel "ester" molecules. Biodiesel "esters" have a high cetane rating (50-60) but are less "waxy" than Renewable Diesel. A unique property of Biodiesel "esters" is they are very good solvents which will attack all non-metallic components (i.e. O-rings, gaskets, plastic fuel filters, etc.) in the fuel system for any diesel engine. Because Biodiesel "esters" are such good solvents is why Cummins and other diesel engine manufacturers limit the maximum Biodiesel content in ULSD to 20% to assure O-rings, gaskets, etc. are not dissolved away. If Biodiesel was not a good solvent, it could be blended into ULSD in any amount.
Can you clarify those two bolded, underlined statements? Are you saying that chemically there is no limit on percentage bio content, but that for engine and component longevity it must be limited?
__________________
Tom & Jeri
2018 Coachmen Galleria 24T Li3
KanzKran is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2020, 11:28 AM   #121
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,183
I agree with you flame

But the discussion is concerning loads delivered to truck stops, commercial sales outlets.

Not Agricultural , construction ussage with no road tax applied. Where the distributor is required to add Red Dye

Read all the above postes and get up to speed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by flamebuster View Post
You are so very wrong. We have a 20,000 gal storage tank on the farm and order our fuel by the tanker load. When we call the different dist. companys we pay an extra .07 per gallon to have the right additive package added to the tanker ( power service is added by Connell Oil for their extreme diesel fuel) depending on price the fuel may come from Tacoma, Anacortez or Spokane and is delivered straight to my farm. The price can only be locked in for a 4 hour period.
Red dye is also added to the fuel when the truck fills as it is declared at that time as off road fuel..
Every company has their own additive pkg. Chevron tech fuel, Unocal extreme diesel for example.. Independants can get straight diesel with no additives if they want too, but it is not recommended.
And they do not add bio fuel in Washington state unless it is required in the Seattle area ( they live in their own world of regulations) That is usually a state mandated requirement for that states fuel stations. Some states require it simply to support the farmer other states require it for environmental reasons.
HJLowell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2020, 04:17 PM   #122
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbdRahim View Post
Tell us about that discount.


Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3481.JPG
Views:	15
Size:	157.2 KB
ID:	275620
__________________
Terry & Alice
2006 Bounder 38L DP
2012 GMC Terrain
firedoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2020, 10:54 AM   #123
Senior Member
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by KanzKran View Post
Can you clarify those two bolded, underlined statements? Are you saying that chemically there is no limit on percentage bio content, but that for engine and component longevity it must be limited?
The answer to the question is "Yes", if a motorhome's (or semi-truck's) fuel system was 100% metallic (i.e. no synthetic vinyl/rubber O-rings, gaskets, no plastic, etc.) then the biodiesel content in ULSD could be unlimited. Biodiesel is better quality fuel than conventional (crude oil derived) diesel with a higher cetane index rating and equally good cold flow properties. The one downside of Biodiesel its it's long term stability. Biodiesel will oxidize (turn black) quicker than conventional and renewable diesels. Biodiesel is also better at attracting and holding water while it sits in storage meaning an increased risk of bacteria (i.e. the infamous slim) growing at the Biodiesel / water interface in a vehicle fuel tank. Hence why the use of Stabilizer and Biocide additives is a "must" if a motorhome's fuel tank is filled with a B5-20 ULSD/Biodiesel blend before the motorhome is placed in storage.
__________________
Mike & Cindy in Katy, TX
2016 Newmar Ventana LE 4037
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
fagnaml is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2020, 11:03 AM   #124
Senior Member
 
Jetskier50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by LunarSea View Post
Never seen diesel at Costco???
A few have it. Not all
__________________
Brian

2007 Signature Noble III 45' ISX 600 HP
Jetskier50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2020, 12:41 PM   #125
Senior Member
 
Sherpa Vern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 206
Costco locations with diesel fuel.

https://www.costco.com/gasoline-diesel.html
__________________
1999 Country Coach Intrigue 40', Cummins ISC 350
Cooks Delight, 25th Anniversary
2007 Saturn Sky Redline on 20' trailer
Sherpa Vern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2020, 08:43 PM   #126
Senior Member
 
Ray,IN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North America somewhere
Posts: 23,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike5511 View Post
I don't think I'll be down on I10 anytime soon, but that is good to know. From what I've learned reading this thread I'm thinking all diesel will have at least 5% bio-diesel. I'm wondering if it is higher than that, that it will stated on the pump? I know there is no mention of any on the pumps I buy at around home. And I know that I have stopped and fueled at some stations on trips without labels but been told they had 5% bio diesel when I inquired.
All on-road diesel fuel today is B2 or more, B2 is the minimum to replace lost lubricity during the refining process that removes sulfur.
Read the links on bottom left corner of this website: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/biodiesel.shtml
__________________
2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG 11B5MX,Infantry retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA." My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy
Ray,IN is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
diesel, fuel



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Good SAM...Bad Sam Bad Bad Bad! STLNLUV iRV2.com General Discussion 43 12-17-2018 07:49 AM
Pilot/Co-Pilot chairs...how to swivel? robtcathy Monaco Owner's Forum 5 07-13-2018 08:29 PM
Pilot/Flying J rvplus card, do you get both GoodSam and pilot discount? Triatik iRV2.com General Discussion 24 12-01-2017 07:50 AM
Bad, bad, bad - bad vibrations.... Doc Vegas Ford Motorhome Chassis Forum 21 11-30-2014 05:56 PM
Pilot and co-pilot shades 2InAlabama Class A Motorhome Discussions 1 08-15-2012 08:11 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.